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Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

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Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#721

Post by slg »

tomhow wrote: post #711
slg wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every reminder that powerful people see that the status quo is unacceptable has value. It's also obvious that a post being flagged reduces the number of people who will see that post, that's the whole purpose of flagging.

If it's really true that "some of the richest and most powerful people in this country and on this planet look at this website", what do we want them to see here? Do we want them to see enraged people saying the same things that they keep hearing over and over and thus dismiss as background noise? Or do we want them to see intelligent, thoughtful people having sophisticated discussions and making new points that migh…

We were discussing post level moderation and not comment level moderation. I'm suggesting the site allow more politics, I'm not condoning abandoning all the site’s rules. I don't think the level of discourse in the comments is being improved by the current level of post level moderation. The most noticeable impact is simply prompting tangents into the post level moderation itself like it did here which arguably lowers the level of discourse.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#722

Post by wqaatwt »

zahlman wrote: post #262
tastyface wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It is not about punishment." I’m not sure how you can possibly make that assertion. They disarmed him and then they shot him.

> They disarmed him and then they shot him. So you're saying you can show me a video where it's clear that the gun is in an LEO's physical possession, everyone involved clearly has time to update on this information, and someone makes an evidently conscious decision to shoot him anyway, despite him clearly no longer posing a physical threat? Really? Because otherwise, it is not about punishment.

> conscious

Depends on how you define the word. But yes?

Their decision to escalate the situation in the first place is a clear indication of that.

> no longer posing a physical threat?

Can you show a video of the gun leaving its holster before that then? Or are you saying that merely possessing a firearm regardless of circumstances is grounds for an immediate execution?

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#724

Post by padjo »

idibiks wrote: post #517
acdha wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about why the administration and its backers lie so frequently: they know they’re lying, and they know that evidence will come out showing that they’re lying, but they’re gambling on a lot of people being busy and not following the story closely enough to realize how misleading the initial claims were. They do that because their policies are unpopular and they would lose power if most people voted. That’s why t…

Trump-voting but not dedicated-to-evil relatives I know (I have others who are dedicated to evil, they're beyond hope—incidentally, this is a whole thing in Republican circles, folks who haven't been around actual red-state Republicans since the '90s or so have no idea how common some really shocking views about the validity of state violence on people who annoy or politically oppose them are, they outright like this…

If it's helpful the BBC have an edited video that shows the time around the shooting without the actual shooting. It makes it pretty clear that the official narrative is bullshit without having to watch someone get killed.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#725

Post by padjo »

eudamoniac wrote: post #403
fzeroracer wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The strongest interpretation of your posts is that you know exactly what you're doing, because you've done it multiple [1] times [2] now [3]. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46559763 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46536148 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46515813

Please see my bio. I support ICE in principal, though not in current practice. This isn't a secret or shameful to me. If we can't have a dialogue about how to deport illegal immigrants safely, and how to get from here to a working deportation system, and the only two options are to abolish ICE or the current situation, I fear abolishing ICE is not going to be what happens. That isn't really what anyone wants. The fir…

You seem to think this is a failure mode and not the system working as intended. I encourage you to read some Stephen Miller posts. Dead liberals is a nice bonus to them.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#726

Post by wqaatwt »

zahlman wrote: post #247
duxup wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. They aren’t professionals and operate with neither the training, nor the will to obey the law. Much of the time they seem to believe trying to bait folks into an e…

> ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. > Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is g…

Amongst other stuff you just said.. not everything a law enforcement officer says is a lawful order by definition. If they are running around harassing, assaulting and arresting people with a due cause that’s still illegal.

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#727

Post by matsemann »

shepherdjerred wrote: post #476
thiht wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the MAGA cult will find yet another explanation that this man magically hurt the 4 ICE agents and they all ended up in a hospital somehow, or that carrying weapons with a permit is unacceptable if you vote democrat

> "Fearing for his life and the lives and safety of fellow officers, an agent fired defensive shots. Medics on scene immediately delivered medical aid to the subject but was pronounced dead at the scene," DHS said. "The suspect also had 2 magazines and no ID—this looks like a situation where an individual wanted to do maximum damage and massacre law enforcement." https://www.foxnews.com/us/border-patrol-involved-shoo…

Were the mag dumping into the lifeless body also "protective shots"? Holy crap they're lying straight to your faces with video evidence against them. How come they can do this without consequence?

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#728

Post by MisterMower »

idibiks wrote: post #517
acdha wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think about why the administration and its backers lie so frequently: they know they’re lying, and they know that evidence will come out showing that they’re lying, but they’re gambling on a lot of people being busy and not following the story closely enough to realize how misleading the initial claims were. They do that because their policies are unpopular and they would lose power if most people voted. That’s why t…

Trump-voting but not dedicated-to-evil relatives I know (I have others who are dedicated to evil, they're beyond hope—incidentally, this is a whole thing in Republican circles, folks who haven't been around actual red-state Republicans since the '90s or so have no idea how common some really shocking views about the validity of state violence on people who annoy or politically oppose them are, they outright like this…

The validity of state violence in the minds of a lot of rural people went through a phase change after Covid.

The folks I know who were previously sympathetic the constraints on government overreach watched state and federal governments impose policies that made no sense for their communities and were actively detrimental to their livelihoods and enforce those policies with fines and even jail time in some instances.

These people would have been against the tactics ICE is using in 2019. Today they’re ambivalent. The attitude is “what comes around goes around.”

Re: Man shot and killed by federal agents in south Minneapolis this morning

#729

Post by B1FIDO »

wqaatwt wrote: post #726
zahlman wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ICE has regularly attacked protesters and bystanders who are simply recording, walking away and so on. > Even people just driving through their neighborhood have been dragged out of their vehicles and apprehended. Citizen or otherwise doesn’t seem to matter. I have seen many claims of this sort, but every single time there's been video available of the incident, it's become clear to me that nothing of the sort is g…

Amongst other stuff you just said.. not everything a law enforcement officer says is a lawful order by definition. If they are running around harassing, assaulting and arresting people with a due cause that’s still illegal.

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