Live data from Hacker News

I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

theverge.com

721–730 of 753 posts

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#721
post #704
post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not especially speaking for MacOS, but to your question, I suspect if you tried to install an appropriate version of MacOS on Mac hardware, you’d have very close to a 100% success rate. That’s certainly my past experience with Mac and, FWIW, Windows too. Anyway, my point wasn’t that Linux should be perfect; but that if it can’t be, maybe give some help why, and more experienced users shouldn’t just jump to blamin…

Re: "if you want Linux to win with non-experts, it needs to target being a better experience for non-experts than the alternatives" I agree in broad terms, but let me re-capitulate this. Which OS do you think would offer a better experience for non-experts when installing on bare-metal? By my reckoning, Windows is a nightmare to install afresh on random hardware, and MacOS wont work on most-all random hardware. Users…

> I agree in broad terms, but let me re-capitulate this. Which OS do you think would offer a better experience for non-experts when installing on bare-metal? By my reckoning, Windows is a nightmare to install afresh on random hardware, and MacOS wont work on most-all random hardware. Users think that Windows is easier because they almost never have to install it from scratch.

I've done multiple installs of every Windows (except 8) Windows since the NT4 era, and multiple installs of OS X over the last decade. They have almost always been straightforward and successful, unless I've complicated things with weird partition/dual boot requirements. (OS X isn't really a fair comparison, as the target hardware is so hugely restricted.)

----

Aside from the initial installation 'just working' (which I accept might not be dramatically different with Linux, these days, and indeed, I accept that Windows often needs additional drivers downloading, depending on your system.) there's another big factor to consider.

With Windows and OS X there's a long-established concept (at least, prior to the app store era) that if you want to install something, you download a file and run it. This applies whether it's drivers or software, and >95% of the time also provides a simple uninstall path. Even my elderly mother can grok this.

With Linux, this is my recent journey: Must I use APT or APT-GET? Flatpack? Snap? Or can I use the built-in Software Manager (FWIW, I really like the one in Mint, except when stuff isn't available on it.) Oh, so some software (Mullvad, Blender, etc.) I need to download manually? I've installed Mint; am I on a Debian system? Okay, I'll download the DEB, but then how to install that? (Oh, it failed - open-whispr). For other things, we must download an Appimage and make it executable - great, that works, but it doesn't have an install feature, so how to install it somewhere so that it's not forever sitting in Downloads? Huh, okay, I can figure that out, but it's a pain. Oh, wait, some of those self-contained files I've downloaded will run directly from file manager, but for some reason fail silently via the start menu link I've just made. Okay, better trouble-shoot that tomorrow...

(For brevity, I've left out that at every stage, there were multiple web searches to find instructions for the correct approach, diving into all manner of forums, Stack Overflow posts, and Github repositories. And I've left out the more esoteric stuff, like slowing down touchpad scrolling via obscure command-line incantations.)

This is the reality of setting up a simple Linux system with (what is reputed to be) one of the most user-friendly distros there is.

And which is why, if the goal is Linux 'winning' on the desktop (beyond committed nerds) there's still quite some way to go on UX.

> Also, do you factor in the ever-increasing nuisances (AI, ads, spyware)[0][1][2][4] that Microsoft and Apple are injecting into their operating systems, and the move towards digital sovereignty which is accelerating in every nation outside of the US in any computation of what is a 'better experience'?

Totally with you, 100% - that's why I'm experimenting with a full shift to Linux myself. But this only applies to relative nerds. Many/most non-expert users don't know or care about such things.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it was horrible. It is similar to GNOME here - a design for tablets and smartphones. It simply does not work on the desktop computer.

I disagree with this characterization. I don't run Gnome now (since I have more fun hacking on Sway), but I really don't think that the characterization of it being a "tablet desktop" is actually very fair. I found Gnome to be very productive, and actually extremely keyboard focused. Outside of a tiling window manager like Sway or i3, I actually have found it more keyboard-centric than any other desktop I've used. Th…

> I feel like everyone hated on Gnome because it was different. They tried it for ten minutes, didn't bother trying to actually learn how to use it, declared it as "shit", and moved on. I was one of those people.

I don't want to learn how to use my computer. I know how I want my computer to work. I just want to adjust my desktop environment to match my vision (which doesn't really match the default of any window manager)

This is where gnome fails for me because it's opinionated software: they have a vision of how it should work and everything is forced that way. Similar to how Apple does it. Choices and configurations are reduced to a minimum.

So for me KDE with its huge configurability is just what I need and gnome is absolutely not. I did actually try to use it on a touch device (surface pro 3) but I needed so many plugins to make it work my way that I started getting issues with plugins interfering with each other and not supporting the latest updates etc. With KDE I could set it all up my way with built in settings. Opinionated software is just the wrong model for me. Unfortunately it's becoming more common because people still look up to Apple.

Ps in similar ways I also mod websites, I have custom stylesheets for a lot of sites I use that remove pics and make it just a plain old list of content similar to hacker news. People who are UX designers probably frown on this but they are designing for everyone (and often not with the user's wishes in mind but ulterior motives like marketing and engagement!), not for me. I know what works best for me. And I don't let others tell me what I should want.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#723
post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree with this characterization. I don't run Gnome now (since I have more fun hacking on Sway), but I really don't think that the characterization of it being a "tablet desktop" is actually very fair. I found Gnome to be very productive, and actually extremely keyboard focused. Outside of a tiling window manager like Sway or i3, I actually have found it more keyboard-centric than any other desktop I've used. Th…

Thanks for formulating this, as I’m too lazy to even start the conversation with the folks who’d like to have a lot of everything on their screens, with myriads of distractions and just ugly little everything. Otherwise ‘that’s tablet,’ and it’s ‘the Gnome team pushing their nonsense,’ not the particular user being used to something completely wrong from the UI/UX perspective. I’m having no issues with teaching Gnome…

Who are you to say they are wrong though if it works for them?

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#724
post #678

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As one of these folks who want a lot of everything on my screen, I'm baffled by your declarations that my workflow is somehow objectively "wrong". Go convince Airbus that the cockpit can only have two gauges, and needs a lot of blank space.

It’s wrong because it takes too much of attention, which we don’t have a lot these days. Good for you if it works, and you really need that much at once. But it’s just wrong for a newcomer, people are getting lost among options. That’s not a rocket science, really. I won’t object there are interfaces where the most simple way of doing some work / task is to have everything on one screen, without constant switching. B…

The thing is with gnome, the default is the only option because they don't allow anything else.

It's nice that it might suit newcomers or average people but I'm neither and I know what I want.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Commercial OSes (both Windows and macOS) are also both American, and lots of people are trying to de-Americanize.

Yep, I'm in this boat. After years of macs my next will be a FreeBSD Desktop. edit: Although phone is much harder. I guess I'll just turn all the 'stuff' like icloud off, use only signal and my banking/etc apps, and get a separate camera.. Anyone found a less painful way to live without an iPhone/Android?

BSD is great on desktop now! I'm on it too.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#726
post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds more like problem of HP’s dock than a Mac. Just because they said it is officially compatible with Mac doesn’t mean it is. Also, compatible with which Mac- Intel or M series? I use three different docks on two Mac Mini (M4 Pro) and they all worked out of the box. I did my research before buying them by watching YouTube reviews.

This is exactly the double standard, or bias when talking operating systems. When it's macOS/Windows, it's someone else's fault; when it's Linux, it's Linux fault. When you have to tinker on macOS/Windows that's just what has to be done, no biggie; when you have to tinker on Linux, it's a burden nobody should be subjected to. People are blind to the work they've grown accustomed to. There are many things that are muc…

Indeed, and especially the double standard regarding "oh but on Linux you have to carefully check if the hardware is supported by Linux" but when it's a Mac it will "just work." In GPs comment they have to do the same hardware compat research as a Linux user does, but that's never listed as a downside for Mac

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it doesn't make Signal bad. If Americans blindly process our messages without knowing what's inside, it's worse than not depending on them, but better than showing your private correspondence to somebody. At least we don't seem to have things which are close by UX and security at the same time. Simplex is fine, but still feels a bit raw. Everything else is either untrustworthy because of the closed code or no e2e…

Simplex is a project by a fervent COVID conspiracy theorist FYI. (Evidence: his Twitter page)

And the internet is originally made by the US army (i.e. professional murderers). Doesn't make the internet bad as a technology.

Simplex is quite well designed. Even if it doesn't succeed, I think we'll see its forks and similar implementations.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ableton supports 64 bit. How did that ruin your projects?

How does licensing work for Live? Would they necessarily have been able to update to a version that supports 64-bit? For instance, I have a few different machines that I will never update the OS on because I would then lose access to software I paid for.

No pretty sure you need to pay for version upgrades in Ableton. One of the reasons I really enjoy FL Studio.

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realise printers are NOTORIOUS for having horrifically bad Linux support, right? Linux would lose that battle 10 times out of 10. Manufacturers have a massive incentive for devices to plug and play on windows and they all basically do.

There is no magic plug and play in Windows, you need to install the giant bundle of crap the printer CD comes with, In Linux it actually works this days, no internet and no CD needed.

No you don’t? I’m not sure you’re living on the same planet

Re: I replaced Windows with Linux and everything's going great

#730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think there are any privacy related settings to tweak. The IoT version doesn't have any of the bloat. It's pretty much like Windows 7 but with a slicker interface.

Telemetry still needs to be turned off. Also there are silly things that windows does, like hide file extensions.

Now you’re pulling at straws
Post reply on HN