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Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

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Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#721

Post by NekkoDroid »

lokar wrote: post #527
dbcpp wrote: post #357

The thing that drives me crazy is that it isn't even clear if AI is providing economic value yet (am I missing something there?). Right now trillions of dollars are being spent on a speculative technology that isn't benefitting anyone right now. The messaging from AI companies is "we're going to cure cancer" and "you're going to live to be 150 years old" (I don't believe these claims!). The messaging should be "every…

Not all of AI is consumer LLM chatbots and image generators. AI has a massive positive impact, and has for decades.

Sure, but that honestly isn't the part which is getting trillions of imaginary dollars are being pumped into. Science AI is in the best of cases is getting the scraps I would say.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#722

Post by overgard »

ineedasername wrote: post #662

The company he's worked for nearly a quarter century has enabled & driven more consumerist spend in all areas of the economy via behaviorally targeted optimized ad delivery, driving far more resources and power consumption by orders of magnitude compared to the projected increases of data centers over the coming years. This level of vitriol seems both misdirected and practically obtuse in lacking awareness of the par…

Google is huge. Some of the things it does are great. Some of the things it does are terrible. I don't think working for them has to mean that you 100% agree with everything they do.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#723

Post by ignoramous »

CerryuDu wrote: post #689
ineedasername wrote: post #662

The company he's worked for nearly a quarter century has enabled & driven more consumerist spend in all areas of the economy via behaviorally targeted optimized ad delivery, driving far more resources and power consumption by orders of magnitude compared to the projected increases of data centers over the coming years. This level of vitriol seems both misdirected and practically obtuse in lacking awareness of the par…

Don't be ridiculous. Google has been doing many things, some of those even nearly good. The super talented/prolific/capable have always gravitated to powerful maecenases. (This applies to Haydn and Händel, too.) If you uncompromisingly filter potential employers by "purely a blessing for society", you'll never find an employment that is both gainful and a match for your exceptional talents. Pike didn't make a deal wi…

> Don't be ridiculous.

OP says, it is jarring to them that Pike is as concerned with GenAI as he is, but didn't spare a thought for Google's other (in their opinion, bigger) misgivings, for well over a decade. Doesn't sound ridiculous to me.

That said, I get that everyone's socio-political views change are different at different points in time, especially depending on their personal circumstances including family and wealth.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#724

Post by mempko »

threethirtytwo wrote: post #600

He only went nuclear because he knew it’s AI. Prepare for a future where you can’t tell the difference. Rob pikes reaction in immature and also a violation of HN rules. Anyone else going nuclear like this would be warned and banned. Comment why you don’t like it and why it’s bad, make thoughtful discussion. There’s no point in starting a mob with outbursts like that. He only gets a free pass because people admire him…

Are you a religious person? Because you are talking about progress like it has nothing to do with powerful people making decisions for everyone. You make it sound spiritual and outside human decision-making.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#725

Post by makerofthings »

maplethorpe wrote: post #292
blibble wrote: post #241

> And by the way, training your monster on data produced in part by my own hands, without attribution or compensation. > To the others: I apologize to the world at large for my inadvertent, naive if minor role in enabling this assault. this is my position too, I regret every single piece of open source software I ever produced and I will produce no more

What people like Rob Pike don't understand is that the technology wouldn't be possible at all if creators needed to be compensated. Would you really choose a future where creators were compensated fairly, but ChatGPT didn't exist?

Yes, very much so. I am in favour of pushing into the future as fast as we can, so to speak, but I think ChatGPT is a temporary boost that is going to slow us in the long run.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#726

Post by kmijyiyxfbklao »

overgard wrote: post #722
ineedasername wrote: post #662

The company he's worked for nearly a quarter century has enabled & driven more consumerist spend in all areas of the economy via behaviorally targeted optimized ad delivery, driving far more resources and power consumption by orders of magnitude compared to the projected increases of data centers over the coming years. This level of vitriol seems both misdirected and practically obtuse in lacking awareness of the par…

Google is huge. Some of the things it does are great. Some of the things it does are terrible. I don't think working for them has to mean that you 100% agree with everything they do.

If it's "Who is worse Google or LLMs?", I think I'll say Google is worse. The biggest issue I see with LLMs is needing to pay a subscription to tech companies to be able to use them.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#727

Post by suralind »

I don’t really understand the hate he gets over this. If you want to thank someone for their contribution, do that yourself? Sending thank you from an ML model is anything but respectful. I can only imagine that if I got a message like that I’d be furious too.

This reminds me a story from my mom’s work from years ago: the company she was working for announced salary increases to each worker individually. Some, like my mom, got a little bit more, but some got a monthly increase around 2 PLN (about $0.5). At that point, it feels like a slap in the face. A thank you from AI gives the same vibe.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#729

Post by prepend »

xuhu wrote: post #688
ineedasername wrote: post #662

The company he's worked for nearly a quarter century has enabled & driven more consumerist spend in all areas of the economy via behaviorally targeted optimized ad delivery, driving far more resources and power consumption by orders of magnitude compared to the projected increases of data centers over the coming years. This level of vitriol seems both misdirected and practically obtuse in lacking awareness of the par…

He worked on: Go, the Sawzall language for processing logs, and distributed systems. Go and Sawzall are usable and used outside Google. Are those distributed systems valuable primarily to Google, or are they related to Kubernetes et cetera ?

He was paid by Google with money made through Google’s shady practices.

It’s like saying that it’s cool because you worked on some non-evil parts of a terrible company.

I don’t think it’s right to work for an unethical company and then complain about others being unethical. I mean, of course you can, but words are hollow.

Re: Rob Pike goes nuclear over GenAI

#730

Post by worik »

cm2012 wrote: post #386
hurfdurf wrote: post #328

Dupe from just a couple of hours ago, which quickly fell off the frontpage? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46389444 397 points 9 hours ago | 349 comments

Interestingly there was no push back in the prior thread on Rob's environmental claims. This leads me to believe most HNers took them at face value.

Umm... are they not correct?

The energy demands of existing and planned data centres are quite alarming

The enormous quantity of quickly deprecating hardware is freaking out finance people, the waste aspect of that is alarming too.

What is your "push back"?

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