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Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

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Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#721

Post by imp0cat »

horsawlarway wrote: post #318
bhouston wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely not all live and functioning. In fact I suspect less than 10m are actively used. It is a company that has been around for years and it has run into sales issues that last few years with competition and their products have tech product lifespans of around 3 years I suspect.

Personally, I have a Roomba I bought in Jan 2019 that's still doing just fine (So 7 years now). Most of the parts are pretty easily replaced (genuinely pleasant surprise, as an aside) and the company stocked most replacement parts for a long time - I just checked again and I can still get parts for my model (I-series) incl batteries, wheels, brushes, filters, etc. Which is less than it used to be, but still enough to…

I love how easy it is to service a Roomba. And the parts (both original and 3rd party) are plentiful.

Mine is from 2017 btw, still doing daily duty.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#722

Post by coldpie »

joenot443 wrote: post #703
coldpie wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She should be, honestly. To me as an American, China has a better reputation than Amazon. Of those two choices, I'm happier with this outcome than giving even more stuff to Amazon.

That's interesting. To me as a Canadian, I think Amazon is more aligned with my best interests than China. What makes you feel otherwise?

See other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46277647

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#723

Post by keeda »

evilduck wrote: post #684
keeda wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While those patents are not enforceable in China (unless equivalents were also filed in China -- unsure if they would be worth much) they would be when imported to the US. This is one of the reasons the ITC exists, and it played a prominent role during the smartphone patent wars. So at least the US market would be protected from knock-offs.

The smartphone wars were fought among tech giants, not capital intensive hardware startups. The problem with patents is that you need to already be financially successful enough to file them, able to pay to protect them in court, and can float your company's operating costs long enough to see them enforced and rewarded, which may take years.

Yes and no -- filing patents is quite affordable (probably outdated info, but I recall average costs for drafting and filing was ~10K / patent, most of the costs being related to the drafting rather than filing.) Compared to all the other capital investments required for hardware startups, these costs are negligible.

But you're totally right that enforcing them is extremely expensive, slow and risky.

That said, Roomba isn't exactly a startup but wasn't a tech giant either, and did enforce their patents often.

And especially against imported infringing products, the ITC provides a much cheaper, faster mechanism to get protection via injunctions.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#724

Post by ErroneousBosh »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #621
mensetmanusman wrote: post #607

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US companies can’t beat Chinese companies completely subsidized by their national government.

Except our companies do just that, all the time. Who is the Chinese Intel? The Chinese Microsoft? The Chinese Boeing? The Chinese NVIDIA? People forget that the US is still the #2 manufacturer in the world, and that's (apparently) without halfway trying.

> The Chinese Boeing?

There isn't one.

AVIC owns Xi'an and Chengdu, who make large commercial aircraft and light bizjets, but they're in no way comparable to Boeing.

Unlike Boeing, they actually care about worker's rights, and product safety.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#725

Post by mattthebaker »

margalabargala wrote: post #671
kqr wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of the time when things get patented, it's strictly worse for innovation in that space until the patents expire. What happens at expiration is an important and intended feature of patents. They trade a legally guaranteed headstart against the requirement of publishing your methods for your competitors to learn from.

Oh, I know. The fact that it takes decades for that to come about is harmful to society.

You would prefer the inventor to be basically ensured of financial destruction and disincentivized in the first place, sounds great for society.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#726

Post by rerx »

mlrtime wrote: post #215
rerx wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BSH (Bosch, Siemens, Neff brands) have their main production sites in Europe, a lot in Germany still. But of course China as well. https://www.bsh-group.com/about-bsh/bsh-worldwide/ Miele (at a more premium price point) production is even more concentrated in Germany. https://m.miele.com/en/com/production-sites-2157.htm (Edit: No replies after 8 hours, but of course they then came in quickly after Europe woke up..)

These are competitive on quality, but are they on price and scale? How many US homes have a Bosch/Miele washer/dryer vs LG/Samsung? (Outside of NYC).

Don't know about the US. From what I can tell Samsung and LG appliances are certainly less common in Europe than the European brands (there's also cheaper brands like Beko or Gorenje).

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#727

Post by imp0cat »

abustamam wrote: post #675

I got a Roomba Combo J7+ (auto empty, mopping) a few years back. Spent $700+ on it. A few years into ownership it ran over cat vomit, got it warranty replaced. And then just recently it decided to stop going home — it makes its way to the dock but stops shy of actually charging. I could get some module replaced but it's no longer under warranty, and I really don't want to deal with a dying company. I've been seeing a…

Sadly, the robotic vacuum market is quite saturated, there are multiple models by many manufacturers and no clear winner.

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#728

Post by tguvot »

Saline9515 wrote: post #705
tguvot wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

water marks in this case will be because water mixes with dirt and it's not 100% wiped off and polished off

You fix this by doing a cycle of vacuuming first. Robots allow you to clean frequently to prevent large buildups. It's the same as if you were cleaning by hand. I have tiles as well and no dirty water marks.

i have robot running daily. it will never pick up 100% of everything. because if it would have picked up 100% there would be no need in mopping.

when i did robot shopping year ago, based on reviews and feedback it (vacuum before mopping) doesn't always work and the more polished your floor is, the worst the outcome

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#729

Post by Cyph0n »

margalabargala wrote: post #678
Cyph0n wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a capitalist corporation beholden to demands by domestic law enforcement and intelligence agencies. And just because a corporation is based in China doesn’t automatically make it some kind of government managed communist entity.

If you live in the US, it is better for you if the home robots with microphones are controlled by the US than the US' geopolitical rival.

Can you expand on why that’s the case?

Suppose the Chinese gov has access to my robovac data. Given that I reside in the US, how is that worse than ICE having access to my data?

Re: Roomba maker goes bankrupt, Chinese owner emerges

#730

Post by DANmode »

kqr wrote: post #289
cs702 wrote: post #254

According to the Financial Times, Roomba has sold more than 40 million robotic devices, most of them robotic vacuum cleaners.[a] Many of those vacuum cleaners have cameras, can move around on their own, and are connected to the Internet. If they're taken offline, they stop working. Many have microphones too. The new Chinese owner will get control of a network of tens of millions Internet-connected, autonomously mobil…

Our household (and I suspect many with us) bought a Roomba specifically to not give the Chinese government a roving camera in our home. Ouch!

How far did you take this? (did you check out the Roomba supply chain at all?) Thanks
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