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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#721

Post by jebronie »

ekjhgkejhgk wrote: post #470
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Reminder that cookie banners are not a regulation problem, they're a privacy problem. If you don't spy on your users you don't have to have cookie banners.

no. even including a font from a different host is not allowed under the gdpr because you are leaking the users IP to that host. you are poorly informed on this topic.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#722

Post by hobofan »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #708
qwertox wrote: post #698

They had enough time to push browser vendors to implement an API which allows the user to specify the preferences, so that the page queries the API, instead of the user. This is a step back. All these years of clicking those banners is now for nothing.

As someone who had to implement GDPR, it would be really frustrating if all people thought it was was the banners (which I’m not even sure was GDPR). While our company was very good at handling customer data already, it forced us to up even our game. Other companies, however, were absolutely miserable at it. GDPR has improved user privacy for the billion+ Internet users across the board, whether they are EU citizens…

Maybe that's just media consumption and reporting bias, but I feel like data leaks have been a lot rarer and less impactful in Europe in recent years compared to the US and based on that the scam/identity theft activity also less intense.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#723

Post by oersted »

bitpush wrote: post #16

Incredible to see the 180 both from EU and also from the HN sentiment. HN was cheering on as EU went after Big Tech companies, especially Meta. Meta is no perfect company, but the amount of 'please stick it to them' was strong (I reckon that is still a bridge too far for a lot of folks here). Even extreme proponents of big tech villanery in the US (Lina Khan's FTC) is also facing losses (They just lost their monument…

The thing is that it didn't work for that objective. It didn't seem to have any meaningful impact on all on the Metas and Googles out there. They control the user base and people depend on their products, it was trivial for them to get full consent like they've always done with their Terms & Conditions.

At the same time, it was a heavy burden for data-oriented EU startups like mine. I've spent a few hundred hours dealing with GDPR, it felt like it was designed to stick it to the big companies without any thought on how it would affect the rest.

And it's been a low-level but ever present friction for users.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#724

Post by palata »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #469
palata wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that companies are not the sum of their employees. Employees are generally good; toxic humans are a small minority (unfortunately they tend to be over-represented at the head of companies). But put employees together into a profit-maximisation machine, and the machine will try to maximise profit, with dark patterns and downright evil things. Similar with our species as a whole: nobody is actively working…

That explains passively malignant processes, like not radically overhauling your business to address climate change. It doesn't explain actively malevolent things like "let's bury the "Decline Cookies" dialog under 3 layers of clicks. That's a proactive choice, that some software developer chose to implement.

I'm guessing that in many cases, it's not one software developer who decides. Most people are told what to do, and for many websites I'm guessing that it's just some kind of Wordpress add-on.

Someone realised that they sold more add-ons if they implement those dark patterns, so they did it ("it's not me, I offer a good one but they buy the evil one"). In my experience in startups, the website was managed by marketing people who honestly had no clue: they seemed to genuinely believe that they needed those cookies ("I am in marketing, I need the data") and they did not understand the consequences. "I just install this Google thing, and then Google gives me nice data for free".

Why do people build weapons? That's a lot worse than a cookie popup, but I'm sure every single person in that industry will tell you that they "save lives".

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#725

Post by Telaneo »

frikskit wrote: post #582
Telaneo wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. Sure, it's X% more difficult to do Y in Europe, because Europe doesn't want you to do Y, either at all, or unless you clean up after yourself so the costs aren't just eaten up by the environment or whatever, or unless you do it without causing harm. That's not a problem. That's the system working as intended. Sure, Europe doesn't have it's own Microsoft, probably because of regulations like this, but I don't wa…

Europe does have Microsoft. Actually, it has Microsoft in almost every single respect except the primary beneficial ones: taxes, employment and oversight.

Yes, and I wish we'd give them the boot for not following the relevant regulations.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#726

Post by edarchis »

danishSuri1994 wrote: post #110

I sympathize with the startup argument: heavy compliance costs can stifle early innovation. But the solution shouldn’t be “weaker rules.” It should be smarter rules, clearer safe harbors for small actors, browser-level consent primitives for users, and stronger enforcement against dark-pattern CMPs. That keeps privacy meaningful without killing small businesses.

There is no certification to pass or anything. You just have to keep it in mind when creating your business. It's too easy to just abuse data and then claim that it's too late to fix.

I've been through several startups after GDPR went into effect, it's really not a problem.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#727

Post by palata »

zelphirkalt wrote: post #524
palata wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory is that companies are not the sum of their employees. Employees are generally good; toxic humans are a small minority (unfortunately they tend to be over-represented at the head of companies). But put employees together into a profit-maximisation machine, and the machine will try to maximise profit, with dark patterns and downright evil things. Similar with our species as a whole: nobody is actively working…

That's why we need to realize, that decisions in the small constitute what happens in the large. If some person comes and tells me to implement dark patterns into the consent popup, I'll tell them that this is illegal. I'll also tell people, when their current consent is manufactured or when their cookie/consent popup does not conform with GDPR. Been there, done that. Only unfortunate, that it was not my role to deal…

I have been in that situation in a startup. The boss would come to me and ask for some dark pattern (not cookies, I don't remember exactly what it was). I said I wouldn't do it. They literally asked a guy in the adjacent room, and he took it as a new task and did it.

He was not a bad guy: I did not care about getting fired (I was young and single), he did (he had a family). And in his opinion, if the boss wanted it, anyway it would end up being done. His job was to implement what the boss wanted, not to contradict the boss.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#728

Post by palata »

nrhrjrjrjtntbt wrote: post #377
palata wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a democracy, the government is its citizen. It sucks when you disagree with the majority of the voters, of course. But it's wrong to say that the government is against the majority of the voters: it was elected by them.

A government or president can definitely be against its voters interests.

Then that president should not be re-elected. Or it's the voters' fault.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#729

Post by missingdays »

a2128 wrote: post #553
nonethewiser wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you comply with the current requirements without cookie banners? Why would EU governments use cookie banners if they are just nonsense meant to degrade approval of GDPR?

See this article by GitHub about how they removed cookie banners: https://github.blog/news-insights/company-news/no-cookie-for... EU law requires you to use cookie banners if your website contains cookies that are not required for it to work. Common examples of such cookies are those used by third-party analytics, tracking, and advertising services. [...] we find cookie banners quite irritating, so we decided to look…

When I open this link I'm greeted with the cookies banner

"We use optional cookies to improve your experience on our websites and to display personalized advertising based on your online activity. If you reject optional cookies, only cookies necessary to provide you the services listed above will be used. You may change your selection on which cookies to accept by clicking "Manage Cookies" at the bottom of the page to change your selection. This selection is maintained for 180 days. Please review your selections regularly. "

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#730

Post by palata »

prolly97 wrote: post #406
palata wrote: post #375

I don't get why people conclude from the cookie hell that "regulations are bad". If those goddamn websites got actual fines for those dark patterns, they wouldn't do it. The EU should just be stricter with the regulations.

I don't want an internet designed by lawyers and politicians. And I'm afraid that's what this level of regulation and enforcement would create.

If it wasn't, you would see illegal adds all over the place. I mean you already do, but the "soft" ones.

Complaining about regulations as a concept is usually about forgetting those that work and seeing exclusively those that annoy you.

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