‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#721

Post by cholantesh » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 12:51 AM UTC

halflife wrote: post #629

kjkjadksj wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As unfortunate as it is, genocides and persecution based on ethnicity or religious orientation are not unique to the Jewish experience. In either case the solution is to target these actions and these policies. The existence of the state of Israel does nothing to further action against these efforts, if what you allege about entire cities in Europe is indeed true. Israel seems to not protect the European Jew at all,…

I presume you misunderstand the purpose of the Jewish state. It’s not to protect Jews living in europe from persecution, it’s to provide a safe haven from persecution. Without site they have no where to go when things get bad. And things to bad many times for Jews in the past 2500 years since their exile. Thinking that the world isn’t tribal is naive, most of it is. Not living as a jew probably doesn’t give you the s…

Why is it a requirement that such a safe haven's existence is predicated on apartheid and ethnic cleansing?

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#722

Post by cholantesh » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 12:52 AM UTC

halflife wrote: post #549

kjkjadksj wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two lines of logic that disrupt this reasoning. One is israel as an independent state hasn’t existed for thousands of years. The other is Jews do have refuge and safe harbors in the form of western countries. Plenty of Jews living quite comfortably with no threat of war protected by the largest military on the planet in west LA. So really these people have no reason to be elevated among similarly displaced…

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There are also cities in Europe where Muslim women are harassed for wearing a hijab, where mosques are either illegal to construct or vandalized outright, and hotels in which refugees from Arab countries are torched in race riots.

>A couple of months ago a religious jew tried to walk through London, and a police officer stopped him because there’s a pro Palestinian protest, and his presence there would be inflammatory.

Gideon Falter is rather specifically a pro-Israel campaigner who, per a 13-minute filmed exchange with the officer involved, had behaved provocatively towards protesters, and was accompanied by members of Isaac Herzog's security detail. The clip that was widely circulated omits this context. But even if it was as clear-cut as Falter makes it out to be, it would be weird to cite this incident of one cop being a racist dope as evidence of endemic antisemitism in Europe - Orthodox Jews frequently participate in such protests, after all.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#723

Post by C6JEsQeQa5fCjE » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 12:54 AM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #610

nielsbot wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oct 7 happened as a result of the Israeli occupation. If there’s occupation, there will be resistance. Instead Israel could become a democratic state with equal rights for all citizens. Which context has been stripped from the narrative in your opinion? Maybe you’ll say Israel is the original Jewish homeland and therefore the occupation is justified?

> Maybe you’ll say Israel is the original Jewish homeland and therefore the occupation is justified? Being raised evangelical, I was taught the land belonged to the Jews since God judged the original inhabitants, and was given to them forever. Those who taught me see modern Israel as righting ancient wrongs and Palestine as occupying Jewish land. They've even visited the West Bank through a food effort with a Christi…

> Having left the church, it's much clearer to me that Arabs and Jews have both lived there for thousands of years

Yes, and there was a lot of mixing and slow but gradual conversion to the dominant socio-cultural muslim group that happened over more than a millenium. After the muslim conquest of Levant in about 630 AD, caliph Umar ibn al-Khattab lifted the Christian ban on Jews entering Jerusalem some time later during his reign. We do not have data on how many jews decided to return there, rather than keep living in civilizational centres across the region and in Europe.

What we do know is that the jewish population of Palestine at the time that the British government initiated the process of handing over Palestine to jews in return for Lord Rothschild's money that they needed to keep fighting WW1 [2], was only about 7%. Subsequent immigration of mostly European jews into Palestine, resulted in about 30% jewish population by the time Western powers decided to declare an independent Jewish-dominated state of Israel on top of Palestine in 1947.

> Both have a right to exist and the capacity to live peacefully together

Brutal occupation has no right to exist. The supremacist state has to go. Apartheid South Africa had to go, and now South Africa is a better country. Nazi Germany had to go, and now Germany is a better country. Imperial colonial Japan had to go, and now both itself and its former colonized territories are better countries. Supremacist ethno-nationalist Israel that occupies natives of the land it was established upon with despicable brutality has to go. In the resulting state that comes after it, yes, people of any religion and ethnicity need to be able to live together in peace. After reparations have been made, the right of return has been honored, most of the stolen land has been given back, and apartheid has been dismantled.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umar

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balfour_Declaration

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#724

Post by wonderwonder » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:02 AM UTC

buyucu wrote: post #571

wonderwonder wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there anything that could be done to stop this? Anything that a hypothetical terrorist organization that raped and murdered 1,000 men, women and children could give back that would lead to an immediate ceasefire? If only there was but I guess we will never know as I am sure there is not an organization so evil that while claiming to represent its people gleefully causes their deaths. An organization so evil that i…

Israeli military has murdered way more than 1000 men, women and children. History didn't start in 2023.

How is that relevant? Is your thought process that the government should just shrug say “oh those dastardly hamas guys got us this time. Fair play on the torture, mutilation, rape and kidnapping. They got our people fair and square they can keep them”

Would you say the same if a bunch of iraqis murdered and raped your family due to what we did under Bush?

Not really sure what point you’re trying to make. Its the governments job to punish those who hurt their citizens and ensure that it doesn’t happen again.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#725

Post by dragonwriter » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:03 AM UTC

dlubarov wrote: post #720

immibis wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The charter for Israel still calls for the total destruction of Palestine...

Israel doesn't really have a charter, are you thinking of Likud?

> Israel doesn't really have a charter,

It has a series of Basic Laws that serve that function (they are expressly a solution to the failure initially to pass a Constitution and are intended to be compiled once complete into a Constitution), but while some of them are problematic on grounds that touch on the Israel-Palestine conflict, I don't think any of them call for the destruction of Palestine (which isn't to say that most Israeli leaders since Israeli occupied the West Bank and Gaza haven't done something like that, but that's a different issue than the Basic Laws doing it.)

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#726

Post by dlubarov » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:03 AM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #567

prepend wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what will ever give Israel confidence that Oct 7 will never happen again? No Hamas in power? Seems like that would give pretty good confidence. This reminds me of alternate history stories where Japan refused to surrender. The US demanded unconditional surrender in WW2. What would have happened if the axis refused. What would have made the allies confident that the war was over without German and Japanese unconditi…

I don't see why the result of a Hamas surrender wouldn't be a new organization with the same goals and methods. A surrender by itself is just a formality. But what is the real plan here? What would realistically come after that and how scary/brutal would it be?

Realistically, I think the plan is just reoccupation of Gaza. The military presence would make it harder for Hamas-like organizations to organize and assemble rockets etc. It might be something like pre-2005 Gaza.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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Post by metalman » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:03 AM UTC

streptomycin wrote: post #447

istjohn wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the "Jewish" in Jewish state that lies at the root of the conflict, isn't it? There aren't many options to maintain a dominant ethnic identity in a democracy when the land the nation was founded on was already inhabited by people who don't share in that identity. The only option is to either cede that ethnic identity or to engage in mass displacement and disenfranchisement. It's exceedingly subtle the way ethno-…

There are currently about 40 countries that have a higher Muslim percentage than Israel's Jewish percentage. Many of them much higher. Many of them kicked out all their Jews in recent history.

When Hitler asked the King of Moroco to hand over all the jews living there , the King replied that there wrre only Morocans living in Moroco, and he wasn't handing any of them over. Also many muslims voluntered and fought the Nazi's from all over the world, as indivuals and as soldiers in colonial army's. As to jews bieng kicked out, no thats not true, and to this day there is an ongoing effort to get jews to emigrate out of the US or wherever in an attempt to bolster the demographics of there ethnostate......which is currently facing the largest out migration,ever.....

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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Post by mardifoufs » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:04 AM UTC

tguvot wrote: post #650

mardifoufs wrote: post #585

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, as you said they are also hunted down and are marginal in the West Bank. It did nothing to stop Israel from settling as they pleased. And the Fatah also stopped armed resistance on their own, and fought off Hamas. So while the PA might only exist now because Israel props them up, that wasn't the case 20 years ago, not to the same extent. The West Bank Palestinians there went for a more pacifist route and in re…

a) not marginal. they are powerful enough to create "no-go zones" for PA and to attempt executing terror acts in Israel b) i'll suggest you to take a look how many new settlements israel build in last 20 years or so. it may surprise you c) Fatah didn't stop armed resistance. It military wings got wiped by Israel in second intifada. And it didn't fought off Hamas. It lost to Hamas in Gaza and survived in west bank bec…

I'm not sure why you say that it would surprise me. How many settlements do you think is okay? And more importantly, how many projected settlements are okay, in your opinion?

No, Fatah did absolutely stop armed resistance. Getting wiped by Israel hasn't been a reason for Palestinians to stop fighting or laying down the arms before. Fatah stopped fighting, in part due to Israel's military victory, sure. But also because they chose to not further entrench themselves in insurgency. Hamas has been knocked out almost into oblivion, and still manages to fight, and according to what you said, they are even gaining ground in the West Bank.

And yeah, no go zones means that the PA doesn't go there because they are against Hamas, and afaik they don't fight Israel either. Sounds like they did chose the pacific route w.r.t Israel ?

Also, any terror attacks in the West Bank itself against Israelis is by definition an attack against settlers. Rockets aren't getting thrown from there, incursions into Israel are very rare, etc. And even those aren't done by organized groups (like the Fatah used to be), except for Hamas, and again Hamas is seen as an enemy by the Palestinian authorities there. The Fatah did win in the West Bank 20 years ago, against Hamas.

I'm not sure how you are arguing against my original point though. The West Bank authorities and the majority of the people living there aren't engaging in armed resistance against Israel. Groups who do are being treated as criminals and they work with Israel to fight them off. Israel in return keeps expanding their settlements (the scale doesn't matter, that's exactly what they have been doing, and Israel had been vocally pushing for the largest expansion in settlements ever, months before October 2023).

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

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Post by fishingisfun » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:18 AM UTC

streptomycin wrote: post #674

ohdeargodno wrote: post #624

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just as a confirmation, how many of those muslim countries are actively in the process of murdering, starving, dehumanising and destroying every single building the jews living in an open air prison ?

They all already completed that over the past 75 years, there aren't any Jews left in those countries anymore.

they left willingly. Iran still has jews and a grand Rabbi. Many Jews moved to israel for economic reasons.

Re: ‘No Other Land’ consultant Awdah Hathaleen killed by Israeli settler

#730

Post by brentm » Thu, Jul 31, 2025, 1:25 AM UTC

corimaith wrote: post #712

brentm wrote: post #707

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The only option for long term peace though is to just get back to that arrangement with a new group in power in Gaza.

That runs counter to the goals of the Palestinians. What happens if they reject this "new group" in favour of Hamas? If you are going to spend that kind of immense political capital to invade and occupy a foreign state you'd better off doing to actual threats like Iran or Russia.

Not Israelis, A new group of their own people. It would need to be a group willing to walk the slow road to peace that will be necessary to regain the trust of Israel. If Israel occupies Gaza long term it will never work for anyone.