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El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

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Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#721

Post by gloosx »

Kindra wrote: post #268
kylebenzle wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeh, it failed so hard no one even uses it anymore.

Are you able to point to a single case where Bitcoin was used as legal tender in an every day business transaction? By this I mean, can you give an example where someone ordered a cup of coffee with Bitcoin directly and not through a proxy?

If bitcoin utility is storing value outside of tax jurisdiction and moving it without obstruction, globally – then the question is Why should that even matter? Former is every rich person's dream, and latter enables a lot of things, good or bad.

A counter-example: can you come up to a coffee shop with a gold collectible coin, chew a piece out, and use it to pay for your coffee directly? You need a proxy in form of a pawn shop for that.

Instruments are instruments, if it is not used for every day business transactions doesn't mean it is not heavily ab-used inside it's niche

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#722

Post by n144q »

willmadden wrote: post #481
dragonwriter wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you need to go to the IMF for a loan of ~3% of your GDP to mitigate the risks associated with Bitcoin, well, that's a pretty good sign that adopting Bitcoin as legal tender was a pretty disastrous failure.

What are you talking about? Their Bitcoin holdings more than doubled in value.

If the wind blew the other way, you wouldn't be talking here.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#723

Post by yieldcrv »

toenail wrote: post #679
yieldcrv wrote: post #663

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there was usdc over lightning if there is, it’s poorly advertised does seem like a huge swing and a miss for lightning to only have unstable value units of account going over it the market clearly wants something else, and has that, on other networks at large volumes

https://docs.lightning.engineering/the-lightning-network/tap...

thanks! yes I mean to check on bitcoin after major network upgrades like Taproot. okay that article was last updated 10 months, how is that panning out with standardized protocols and wallet integration and issuance?

I’m curious where the communities about this are, or are nowadays

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#724

Post by [deleted] »

influx wrote: post #109
the_af wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether you think of them as successful or failed, I don't think you can see El Salvador's policies as "progressive".

How is it "progressive" to allow public safety issues to disproportionately impact vulnerable populations?

[deleted]

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#725

Post by floydnoel »

hagbarth wrote: post #520
willmadden wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you talking about? Their Bitcoin holdings more than doubled in value.

Would that not be a bad thing when using it as legal tender? Deflation tends to be disastrous for the economy.

deflation is fine for an economy. inflation is disastrous for an economy. the people in charge of the money printers are trying to keep you confused. don’t buy it.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#726

Post by the_af »

next_xibalba wrote: post #420
the_af wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of whether you think of them as successful or failed, I don't think you can see El Salvador's policies as "progressive".

[flagged]

There are alternative paths one could take to address society's ills.

I'm saying Bukele's policies aren't progressive. Furthermore, he doesn't consider them progressive. His allies in the Latin American ultra right wing don't consider them progressive. "Progressive" to them is an insult.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#727

Post by hshshshshsh »

tel wrote: post #707
hshshshshsh wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything is a speculative asset. Your marriage is a speculative asset that your wife doesn't cheat on you in future and actually loves you. S&P is a speculative asset that it will perform like it has been performing in last 30 years. USD is a speculative asset on US not going bankrupt. Your career is speculative asset that you don't get fired tomorrow and you can find another job if you do get fired. Bitcoin is a s…

Yeah, that’s true. We invest in a lot of things, hoping for future value. But I guess I still treat those differently. I only hold enough USD for upcoming purchases. And I struggle to understand how investing in my marriage is speculative. For a variety of reasons I can’t (or wouldn’t want to) manage that risk like I would in normal speculative investment. I can’t hedge, size up, size down. So I think I’m missing som…

In my POV it's all the same since all of them are essentially beliefs with various probabilities.

You don't know what will happen in any of the cases. You just choose to believe one more over the other based on what has happened in the past.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#728

Post by llamaimperative »

floydnoel wrote: post #725
hagbarth wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would that not be a bad thing when using it as legal tender? Deflation tends to be disastrous for the economy.

deflation is fine for an economy. inflation is disastrous for an economy. the people in charge of the money printers are trying to keep you confused. don’t buy it.

LOL

I have $1,000.

I believe that tomorrow, my $1,000 will be worth $2,000.

Why would I ever spend my money?

Hence, economy freezes.

This is so plainly obvious to everyone except crypto zealots I literally gasped seeing your comment.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#729

Post by llamaimperative »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #197
georgeecollins wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be two concepts that are getting conflated. One concept is that BTC is a good investment. Historically that is undeniable. The other concept is that it is a good medium of exchange. I think that is not so true because 1) its neither cheap nor easy to buy a lot of things with it 2) a thing that goes up in value is not a good medium of exchange because people don't want to spend it, they want to hoard it…

> a thing that goes up in value is not a good medium of exchange because people don't want to spend it, they want to hoard it. So... traditional money is good because it forces poor people to spend it? Rich people have no problem converting cash into assets that go up in value and holding onto them converting back at need. It's only poor people that have to hold comparatively high percentage of their assets in someth…

Yes it is good to have currency that is distinct from an investment asset. It allows you to do currency things with one, and investment things with the other.

Re: El Salvador abandons Bitcoin as legal tender

#730

Post by llamaimperative »

agumonkey wrote: post #698
int_19h wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people on libertarian right genuinely believe that deflationary money is desirable. BTC is often referred to as "digital gold" for a reason.

can you explain their reasoning ? just curious (i'm a newb)

Sure: if I buy today, I’ll be richer tomorrow.

Ergo, the exact reason it’s a horrible currency for the system.

It’s really just the infamous libertarian inability to consider the needs of the system as separate but still important and sometimes in tension with the desires of the individual.

It’s just a particularly goofy one because a deflationary currency very obviously cannot support an economy.

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