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OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

ft.com

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Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#721

Post by otterley »

leobg wrote: post #711

OpenAI is taking the position similar to that if you sell a cook book, people are not allowed to teach the recipes to their kids, or make better versions of them. That is absurd. Copyright law is designed to strike a balance between two issues. One the one hand, the creator’s personality that’s baked into the specific form of expression. And on the other hand, society’s interest in ideas being circulated, improved an…

As another attorney, I would impart some more wisdom:

"Karma's a bitch, ain't it."

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#722

Post by protocolture »

dathinab wrote: post #558
tempeler wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On another subject, if it belongs to OpenAI because it uses OpenAI, then doesn't that mean that everything produced using OpenAI belongs to OpenAI? Isn't that a reason not to use OpenAI? It's very similar to saying that you used Google and searched; now this product belongs to Google. They couldn't figure out how to respond; they went crazy.

The US ruled that AI produced things are by themself not copyrightable. So no, it doesn't belong to OpenAI. You might be able to sue for penalties for breach of contract of the TOS, but that doesn't give them the right to the model. And even if it doesn't give them any right to invalidate unbound copyright grants they have given to 3rd parties (here literally everyone). Nor does it prevent anyone from training their…

>The US ruled that AI produced things are by themself not copyrightable.

The US ruled that the AI cannot be the author, that doesn't lead like so many clickbait articles suggest, that no AI products can be copyrighted.

1 Activist tried to get the US copyright office to acknowledge his LLM as the author, who would then provide him a license to the work.

There was no issue with himself being the original author and copyright holder of the AI works. But thats not what was being challenged.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#724

Post by portaouflop »

bilekas wrote: post #95

> “It’s also extremely hard to rally a big talented research team to charge a new hill in the fog together,” he added. “This is the key to driving progress forward.” Well I think DeepSeek releasing it open source and on an MIT license will rally the big talent. The open sourcing of a new technology has always driven progress in the past. The last paragraph too is where OpenAi seems to be focusing their efforts.. > we…

TikTok is banned in the US?

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#725

Post by cratermoon »

zombiwoof wrote: post #640
Imnimo wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it would cast doubt on the narrative "you could have trained o1 with much less compute, and r1 is proof of that", if it turned out that in order to train r1 in the first place, you had to have access to bunch of outputs from o1. In other words, you had to do the really expensive o1 training in the first place. (with the caveat that all we have right now are accusations that DeepSeek made use of OpenAI data -…

Exactly. They piggybacked of lots of compute and used less. There still is a total sum of a massive amount of compute

OpenAI piggybacked on the whole internet and the catalogued and shared human knowledge therein.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#728

Post by ohhhhhhhhhk »

blast wrote: post #374

Everyone is responding to the intellectual property issue, but isn't that the less interesting point? If Deepseek trained off OpenAI, then it wasn't trained from scratch for "pennies on the dollar" and isn't the Sputnik-like technical breakthrough that we've been hearing so much about. That's the news here. Or rather, the potential news, since we don't know if it's true yet.

Funny how the first principles people now want to claim the opposite of what they’ve been crowing about for decades since techbros climbed their way out of their billion dollar one hit wonders. Boo fucking hoo.

Re: OpenAI says it has evidence DeepSeek used its model to train competitor

#730

Post by manamorphic »

duchenne wrote: post #713

The reasoning happens in the chain of thoughts. But OpenAI (aka ClosedAI) doesn't show this part when you use the o1 model, whether through the API or chat. They hide it to prevent distillation. Deepseek, though, has come up with something new.

Crazy how most people miss this simple logical deduction.
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