Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline • Hacker News Board

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#721

Post by throwawayq3423 » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 8:59 PM UTC

elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it?

This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence.

I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their own power. Think of the creativity we are all losing out on.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#722

Post by glenstein » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:04 PM UTC

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #721

elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it? This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence. I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their ow…

For better or worse, I think CCP has long been on the backfoot in international propaganda just because what passes for persuasive narratives in authoritarian contexts falls flat to global audiences fluent in western entertainment and media culture.

Of course they have modernized, but most actual influence obtained thus fair (e.g. international olympic committees covering up investigations, stopping the NBA from venturing criticisms) has come from projection of soft power rather than being on the cultural cutting edge.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#723

Post by bsimpson » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:04 PM UTC

next_xibalba wrote: post #404

legitster wrote: post #119

TikTok is perhaps the most impressively addictive social media app ever created. The algorithm used in the US was apparently banned in China for being too addictive. There's a certain historic symmetry with how opium was traditionally used in China, then Britain introduced stronger, more disruptive versions, forcing a stronger social reaction. Geopolitics aside, I think everyone is kind of aware that social media is…

From a geopolitical perspective, this issue about 3 items: 1) Influence- TikTok gives the CCP significant direct influence over the views of Americans. 2) Data- TikTok collects massive amounts of data on 100s of millions of Americans. Opens many avenues for spying, extortion of influence, etc. 3) Reciprocity- Foreign tech companies are essentially banned from operating in China. Much like with other industries, China…

It has blown my mind how "free Palestine" has become a meme. That war started with a bunch of terrorists kidnapping/raping/murdering college-age kids at a music festival, and college kids around the world started marching _in support of_ the perpetrators.

At some point, I realized that I avoid social media apps, and the people in those marches certainly don't.

I know that there's more to the Israel:Palestine situation than the attack on the music festival, but the fundamental contradiction that the side that brutalized innocent young people seems to have the popular support of young people is hard to ignore. I wonder to what degree it's algorithmically driven.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#724

Post by djtango » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:06 PM UTC

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #721

elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it? This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence. I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their ow…

As someone who wants to learn Chinese, I think about it all the time. Watching Chinese shows just isn't as fun for whatever reason. I was telling my wife the other day I have met so many people who credit Friends for why they can speak English.

That's soft power right there.

I've had to resort to watching anime on Netflix with Chinese dubs - anime is good because people actually talk slower and usually use simple language. When I watched Three Body (Chinese version) the dialogue was impenetrable lol

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#725

Post by glenstein » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:08 PM UTC

toddmorey wrote: post #643

Anyone here who's not a TikTok content creator reasonably upset about losing access to the platform? Can you tell me why it will sting for you? I was really surprised that my daughters (avid teenage TikTok users) are much more relieved than mad. Both said they wasted too much time on TikTok and were hoping life will now feel better. Seems the very thing that made the platform sticky puts it in a guilty pleasure categ…

I've found something like a very efficient sorting into communities of shared interest, and something egalitarian in being able to see people with 0 views and get reactions from them.

It's by contrast to say, Youtube and X, where The Algorithm (tm) sustains a central Nile river of dominant creators and you're either in it or you're not.

That said, I think the political questions are rightly the dominant ones in this convo and those color my lived experience of it.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#726

Post by stevenAthompson » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:09 PM UTC

The United States is currently in the middle of a cyber cold-war with China.

They hacked all of our major telco's and many of America's regulatory organizations including the treasury department. Specifically they used the telco hacks to gather geolocation data in order to pinpoint Americans and to spy on phone calls by abusing our legally mandated wiretap capabilities.

Yet people are arguing that we should allow the people who did that to continue to install apps on millions of Americans phones.

I can't tell if people just don't know that this is happening, or if they take their memes way too seriously. I sort of wonder if they don't know it's happening because they get their news from Tiktok and Tiktok is actively suppressing the stories.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#727

Post by datavirtue » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #721

elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it? This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence. I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their ow…

I'm resentful for not having BYD here to offer affordable vehicles. The vast numbers of people who are now boxed out of the middle class could desperately use the help of a vehicle that doesn't cost them $700 a month.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#728

Post by nilsbunger » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:10 PM UTC

joshfee wrote: post #584

I think the easiest answer to follow for "why is this not prevented by free speech protection" is "the fact that petitioners “cannot avoid or mitigate” the effects of the Act by altering their speech." (page 10 of this ruling, but is a reference to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Broadcasting_System,_In... )

This is a limitation on foreign control of TikTok, not a limitation on speech. TikTok can stay in the us market if it eliminates the foreign control

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#729

Post by skyyler » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

marknutter wrote: post #645

ddoolin wrote: post #5

FWIW, this has driven many users to RedNote, which is even more Chinese in every way, regardless of whether it's even the same kind of platform. I doubt it would ever be anywhere near the same numbers as TikTok (assuming ByteDance didn't sell off) but it does illustrate the trouble with this i.e. cat-and-mouse game. Edited for word choice.

Sure, guy, and Bluesky will become the new Twitter.

A lot of my friends have stopped using twitter and have started using Bluesky.

Re: Supreme Court upholds TikTok ban, but Trump might offer lifeline

#730

Post by swatcoder » Fri, Jan 17, 2025, 9:11 PM UTC

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #721

elzbardico wrote: post #181

This is going to be an interesting experiment: A widely used social network across the world WITHOUT american content. Until now, the closest thing we had like this were national our regional networks like Russia's vk, but Vk was never truly popular outside Russian speaking countries. Now we, for the first time ever, will have the situation where a social network has global reach but without american content. Will it…

> Will we see internationalized Chinese content dominating it? This is a weird fantasy, but it brings up an interesting point. The complete lack of Chinese influence on global pop culture. Especially when compared to Japan or Korea, countries with a fraction of the population but many, many times the influence. I wish the CCP didn't wall off their citizens from the rest of the world in the name of protecting their ow…

What do you mean by "global pop culture" here?

I've never considered there to be one, although I'm open to the idea.

It's easy for me to recognize an Ameican pop culture or an Anglo pop culture, and the favor each show for certain imports over others, but those don't seem nearly so universal as your usage of "global pop culture" suggests.

Latin, Arabic, Russian, Chinese, French, Indian/South Asian, etc each represent huge "pop culture" markets of their own but also each have their own import biases.