New iMac with M4 • Hacker News Board

Re: New iMac with M4

#721

Post by harywilke » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:25 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #570

SurgeArrest wrote: post #530

Reading this on 2017 iMac 27" - is the first 5k iMac that couldn't be used as a monitor after the computer inside is irrelevant. I hope EU will push for some law that requires all AIO computers to work in monitor-only mode if internal hardware is no longer good enough or no longer supported by software updates. I love the 5k screen on this iMac but the CPU is too old for photo or video editing as software got so much…

> Apple is only "green" in their presentations - in reality they care more about inifite sales only. needs citation. I say this as someone who worked several years in engineering at Apple, and they were extremely environmentally conscientious years before it was a thing.

I remember, long time ago in 1990, when apple switched to brown boxes for environmental reasons.

Re: New iMac with M4

#722

Post by Reason077 » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:35 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #706

conradev wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they actively do bad things, it's that they only dedicate real resources in the direction of self-interest. Tim Cook likes to point to their solar investments and accessibility as examples of "doing good" when in reality the former is a good long term financial bet and the latter is generally under-resourced (or "cheap" to them). They'd use M.2 SSDs in their Macs instead of soldering flash chips to the…

I think it's extremely overestimated by the technical crowd how many people would ever upgrade their RAM or SSD in their Macbook. I honestly doubt it's even in the single digit percentage points. The energy, engineering and material wasted on having connectors probably vastly outweighs the environmental savings by having that one tech person upgrade their RAM or SSD,

> "I think it's extremely overestimated by the technical crowd how many people would ever upgrade their RAM or SSD in their Macbook."

Back in the day when this was possible (iBooks, Powerbooks, early-model MacBooks), I'd say that a large percentage of Mac laptops eventually did get upgraded. I certainly upgraded 100% of the Macs I owned and also did many for friends and family. Some models made upgrades quite easy: the RAM slots, especially, were often accessible without special tools. It was common to buy the base model Mac with the fastest CPU, then install your own RAM modules and big HDD/SSD to save money. Swapping HDDs out for SSDs was also, of course, a huge performance upgrade for a while.

Even non-technical users who wouldn't upgrade their Macs on their own would often trade them in to dealers/resellers who would refurbish and upgrade them for resale.

Re: New iMac with M4

#723

Post by stuartd » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:40 PM UTC

SurgeArrest wrote: post #530

Reading this on 2017 iMac 27" - is the first 5k iMac that couldn't be used as a monitor after the computer inside is irrelevant. I hope EU will push for some law that requires all AIO computers to work in monitor-only mode if internal hardware is no longer good enough or no longer supported by software updates. I love the 5k screen on this iMac but the CPU is too old for photo or video editing as software got so much…

It can be done, and if my 2016 IMac dies then I am going to do it. An amazing display.

https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Convert+an+iMac+Intel+27-Inch+E...

Re: New iMac with M4

#724

Post by brianpan » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:43 PM UTC

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #327

I love in Apple product announcements when they show people doing tasks that not only don't require recent hardware, but in fact could have been done without much trouble 20 or 30 years ago. Specifically talking about the ice cream spreadsheet that I suppose was there to show off how small businesses can use the new iMac. I'm sure it's a fine machine, but it does to me highlight the upgrade treadmill.

Isn't that show the opposite of the upgrade treadmill?

When I buy a new MacBook, it WILL be to make ice cream spreadsheets. Not because M3 is now an M4. (Except for the Intel to M1 transition, I waited for that one.)

And when I buy a new iPhone it won't be because I really need a Dynamic Island, it'll be because of Fantastical and Overcast.

Re: New iMac with M4

#725

Post by bloudermilk » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:44 PM UTC

dlevine wrote: post #348

I'm surprised they are still shipping these with 256GB of storage base. I had a Macbook with a ~500GB SSD in 2012 (I installed it), and a 500GB spinning disk in like 2008 (also user installed). A 500GB SSD can be had for <$50 these days, and a 1TB for <$100. Still plenty of profit for Apple, even if they bump up the base storage to 512GB and make 1TB a $200 upgrade...

You just made me nostalgic for the intel MBP days when you could swap the factory HDD and optical drive for two SSDs

Re: New iMac with M4

#726

Post by hajile » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:45 PM UTC

rowanG077 wrote: post #706

conradev wrote: post #600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that they actively do bad things, it's that they only dedicate real resources in the direction of self-interest. Tim Cook likes to point to their solar investments and accessibility as examples of "doing good" when in reality the former is a good long term financial bet and the latter is generally under-resourced (or "cheap" to them). They'd use M.2 SSDs in their Macs instead of soldering flash chips to the…

I think it's extremely overestimated by the technical crowd how many people would ever upgrade their RAM or SSD in their Macbook. I honestly doubt it's even in the single digit percentage points. The energy, engineering and material wasted on having connectors probably vastly outweighs the environmental savings by having that one tech person upgrade their RAM or SSD,

Apple wants $1200 for a 4TB SSD. I'm sure a LOT of people would gladly pay $300 for a top-end SSD of the same size and pay someone to install it for $100 and still save $800 on the price of the machine.

Re: New iMac with M4

#727

Post by caseyy » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:46 PM UTC

Koshkin wrote: post #669

doublepg23 wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not get a Mac Mini and external 32” display? It should be refreshed this week with rumors of a redesign.

Not if you want an M4

It will come.

Re: New iMac with M4

#728

Post by Reason077 » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:46 PM UTC

jerich wrote: post #707

SurgeArrest wrote: post #530

Reading this on 2017 iMac 27" - is the first 5k iMac that couldn't be used as a monitor after the computer inside is irrelevant. I hope EU will push for some law that requires all AIO computers to work in monitor-only mode if internal hardware is no longer good enough or no longer supported by software updates. I love the 5k screen on this iMac but the CPU is too old for photo or video editing as software got so much…

Apple should hire a couple hackers to create “end-of-life” firmware for their obsolete devices; give them new life as super-specialized devices. Part green program, part customer delight, even some wacky art projects. Maybe if an iMac doesn’t have a video input—have it boot as an AirPlay-only monitor. I’ve got 2 old EOL appleTV boxes sitting in a drawer—again, one last firmware update to make them dedicated AirPlay r…

> "Apple should hire a couple hackers to create “end-of-life” firmware for their obsolete devices; give them new life as super-specialized devices."

They've actually done this in a few cases! There's a whole generation of obsolete Airport Express Wifi base stations that got a final firmware update which gave them AirPlay 2 functionality. Now they're still quite sought after as a device to make old stereos/speakers wirelessly compatible with the latest Apple devices. Especially if you have stereo eqipment that can take optical (TOSLINK) audio input.

Re: New iMac with M4

#729

Post by fastball » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:48 PM UTC

mullsork wrote: post #124

aqme28 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you expected to replace your screen often? I don't think I upgrade and replace either one much faster than the other. Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years.

> Usually get a new monitor and a new PC every 4 or so years. Maybe you're not quite the average consumer that OP has in mind? Maybe you are, I don't know. Either way it's unsustainable and ridiculous that the _average consumer_ would need to replace something after 4 years when it COULD be built to last.

That wasn't their point. The point is that the average consumer doesn't really upgrade their desktop separately from their screen, if the two are separate. You do not need to replace an iMac after 4 years, they are in fact built to last.

Re: New iMac with M4

#730

Post by sgt » Mon, Oct 28, 2024, 10:50 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #138

jfoster wrote: post #76

I could never justify getting an iMac. All the downsides of a laptop & desktop in one; not upgradeable and not portable. Leaves me wondering how many of these Apple actually sell. A Mac Mini with a separate screen feels like it makes far more sense.

The iMacs very much aren't their main seller. A couple of key demographics use it though: * Families with a shared computer in a common room. Super simple to setup, no fiddling, low price. In the video Apple showcased this use case. My parents have an M3 imac and it works great. They had their last iMac for ten years. * Businesses buy these for reception areas and customers see the Apple logo on the back. Easy soluti…

If you just want a family computer in the living room or somewhere, it's perfect. A place where you can just sit down and do some stuff. We have an iMac there without a login requirement.