Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport • Hacker News Board

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#721

Post by estomagordo » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:28 AM UTC

NoxiousPluK wrote: post #339

codedokode wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Telegram allows to report illegal posts; I suggest that France arrests those who saw the posts but didn't report them instead.

To be fair, anyone that has used Telegram for a while know that this is just a mock option to fool regulators. You can report all you want; zero action is taken. There are dozens of accounts that joined groups I'm in to spam CSAM. We've reported them, kicked/banned them from the group. Months later you can look them up and they're still there and still active. They even post CSAM in their public (visible for everyone…

How would I even know if zero action is taken? I see shit and I report it. I don't see it again.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#722

Post by blackhawkC17 » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:30 AM UTC

bryant wrote: post #299

cypress66 wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you call moderation is also a tool dictatorships use to censor people. It goes both ways.

> What you call moderation is also a tool dictatorships use to censor people. It goes both ways. The veracity of this claim aside, posting this as a reply to someone who just shared their own experience getting doxxed in a country where victims have legitimate grounds to fear for their lives... feels a little out of place. Also, usually the dictatorships abuse the censors once their grasp is firm. Until then, they're…

> Posting this as a reply to someone who just shared their own experience getting doxxed in a country where victims have legitimate grounds to fear for their lives... feels a little out of place.

They should pick a bone with their country’s government that allows such thing to happen, not Telegram.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#723

Post by rldjbpin » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:31 AM UTC

very interesting past few days for people running internet services. first kim then pavel.

seems like the prosecutorial, sacrificial lambs in internet platform space are those who are big enough to afford private jets but not too big to become faceless. hope he has a decent judicial insurance in place.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#724

Post by aa_is_op » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:31 AM UTC

user_7832 wrote: post #587

aa_is_op wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is his fault when his site is full of CSAM and he refuses to take it down

Can’t comment on csam but telegram has and does take down channels/accounts for many reasons including as “light” as copyright infringement.

The fact that it has reporting mechanisms, doesn't it uses them.

There have been govt commissions in the UK, France, the EU, and the Netherlands about getting Telegram to act on their reports.

All of this while Durov is bragging in Russian press that he doesn't need more than 3 moderators.

If you're not aware of what's really happening here, I'd recommend not commenting.

This guy is a legit a-hole. There's bots on Telegram where you enter women's names or social media URLs and you get back if someone ever posted revenge porn about her. Those bots remain online until a journalist covers them. Unless the company is publicly humiliated, no Telegram channel is ever taken down. Telegram has been the go-to platform for hosting malware and stolen data for half a decade. Nothing... NOTHING has ever been taken down even if it's a blatant TOS violation. So yeah, fuck Durov!

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#725

Post by aa_is_op » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:32 AM UTC

codedokode wrote: post #512

pajeets wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

North Korean meth is sold in bulk on Telegram channels in South Korea. Drug abuse is out of control and crypto currency is used by NK to sell drugs to SK and use funds for its regime.

How do they get it across the well-guarded border by the way?

Through intermediaries, usually Vietnam or the Philippines

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#726

Post by codedokode » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:43 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #576

panarky wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram…

In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data t…

> In the case of violations of other criminal offenses,

"other offences" probably means copyright issues?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#727

Post by bryanrasmussen » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:43 AM UTC

walterbell wrote: post #576

panarky wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Durov is full of shit. He'd have you believe that all messages are welcome on Telegram, that no material is censored, that it's all about free expression, that they're too small to provide moderation. But when an account is flagged for spam, Telegram rapidly responds and restricts or kills the account. So they can and do moderate content. It's just that accounts can get flagged for CSAM hundreds of times and Telegram…

In cases where there is public evidence of illegal activity, where incidents have been reported to law enforcement, does Telegram provide LE with account information (e.g. phone number) for further investigation? Similar to Apple transparency reports? https://www.apple.com/legal/transparency/ https://restoreprivacy.com/telegram-sharing-user-data/ > the operators of the messenger app Telegram have released user data t…

>“notoriously insecure”

sounds logical and can probably be checked!

>"routinely cooperates with governments behind the scenes.”

sounds logical and being a big company I suppose true.

>“the US government spent $3 million to build Signal’s encryption”

sounds probable, meaning they got funding from some NSA project.

>“activists used by the US state department for regime change abroad.”

this sounds a bit crazy!

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#728

Post by hnpolicestate » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:45 AM UTC

It's hard to respond to some of the commentary here. We truly exist mentally on different planets. The West wants Telegram destroyed because the platform permits the sharing of information and ideas that are in opposition to Western domestic and foreign policy(Israel, Ukraine, China etc). This is in addition to the West not having a backdoor to Telegram and not having it's servers on Western soil.

Why do you want your country to control what you can see, read or say? Why do you want your country to have access to your private thoughts and opinions? Stop being a coward and fight this fascist overreach. And spite yourself if you support it.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#729

Post by Kbelicius » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:48 AM UTC

garrettgarcia wrote: post #331

gtvwill wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But here's the thing. If your app is known to be uses heavily by criminals ranging from Pedo's to drug dealers. You are liable. You run a carrier service. Much like the owner of omegle found out, yes you do have a duty of care. You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit. You live in fairytale land if you think you can.

Why stop there? By your logic, the owners of every ISP that provides a pathway for those criminal bits also should be in jail. Every single organization in that pathway would be liable from the registrars to the developers of web libraries or other app services. The governments themselves would be liable in many cases where the government has nationalized internet services. There is a principle in the free world that…

> Why stop there? By your logic, the owners of every ISP that provides a pathway for those criminal bits also should be in jail.

No, that is by your own logic, not GPs. GP clearly said: "You can't just provide a service that knowingly provides a platform to criminal activity and do jack shit.". Considering that ISPs do something about that activity, by GPs logic, owners of ISP should not be in jail. Am I worng?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#730

Post by cocok » Sun, Aug 25, 2024, 8:52 AM UTC

nine_k wrote: post #103

The detainment order was outstanding for some time, and Durov certainly knew that. Still he plainly landed in France and was detained. Why? My pet tinfoil-hat theory is that he decided that staying in a French prison is safer for him than being out in the open and get some polonium, or whatnot.

> My pet tinfoil-hat theory is that he decided that staying in a French prison is safer for him than being out in the open

People do that.

Recently, the Bulgarian drug lord nicknamed Brendo not only surrendered, but somehow bribed border control to let him in the country so he can show up directly in front of Sofia Central Prison, with a duffel bag, ready to be taken in. He wanted to skip the bureaucracy and go behind bars ASAP.