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Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

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Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#721

Post by incognos »

gataca wrote: post #577
jay-barronville wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t rocket science. Israel has killed more than 13,000 children in less than 5 months. This is only counting the children. That’s almost 4.5 9/11’s in children alone. And our (Americans) taxpayer dollars is helping sponsor these war crimes. Israel has one of the most advanced military and intelligence apparatuses in the world. And Palestinians are some of the most surveilled humans in the world. Israel knows w…

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

For the record, it was debunked that it was a Hamas rocket as none of them had that potential yield and still do not. The ordinance for that explosion only had one provenance: the United States.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#722

Post by tptacek »

Qem wrote: post #712
gataca wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

[flagged]

That's not what "debunking" means. It's an article that disputes the current consensus that an errant rocket from Gaza exploded in the hospital. Having the debate is fine (if it's on topic), but preemptively declaring the debate over, misrepresenting the consensus on the issue, and accusing those asserting the current consensus of "misinformation" is disingenuous, and you can't do that and still be civil.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#723

Post by falcor84 »

marcosdumay wrote: post #687
falcor84 wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until quite recently in history, the vast majority of countries have been controlled by unelected autocrats, and as you say, some still are. But I don't recall that ever bothered us from associating conflicts with the countries as a whole.

We mostly don't waste time dwelling on the ethics of long dead people, and the few that do are usually seen as some ivory-tower kinds without any concern for present issues. But rest assured that the people that study those things know quite well it's the country leaders declaring wars, not the people.

Point taken.

But I'm still wondering where we should be drawing the line. For example, Russia has arguably not had fair and free elections for over two decades, so should we refrain from saying that there's a war between Russia and Ukraine and instead say that there's a war between Putin's party (United Russia) and Ukraine"?

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#724

Post by gataca »

archagon wrote: post #165
psunavy03 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protected sites lose their protected status under the law of armed conflict if they are used to hide/support combatants. Agree or disagree with Israel's targeting policies; that's still the law and has been for decades.

If the law permits thousands of innocents to be slaughtered, then maybe it needs to change.

Hamas is free to hand out uniforms to its soldiers to prevent civilians getting killed. They’re also free to build barracks instead of tunnels underneath schools to house their fighters. Until they do so civilians will continue to suffer.

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#725

Post by Qem »

gataca wrote: post #699
jay-barronville wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas […] This is an unserious argument. 1. The numbers come from Gaza’s Ministry of Health, which is indeed “controlled” by Hamas since Hamas is their governing entity. 2. The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers. In fact, it’s quite the opposite: The Ministry’s numbers have held up to scrutiny in ALL of the pre…

> The Ministry has no verifiable history of being wrong on the civilian casualty numbers This is laughable. They claimed that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people that the Palestinians themselves bombed. You are either hopelessly biased and unserious or uninformed.

> They claimed that Israel bombed a hospital and killed 500 people

The claims appear to be founded: https://forensic-architecture.org/investigation/israeli-disi...

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#726

Post by jay-barronville »

incognos wrote: post #721
gataca wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas, the same people who claimed 500 people died in a hospital Israel bombed but when it was revealed their own rocket bombed it the casualty numbers dropped 10-fold, war isn’t arithmetic. The United States killed many more Japanese civilians than American civilians who died during the war, that doesn’t make them right. Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide…

For the record, it was debunked that it was a Hamas rocket as none of them had that potential yield and still do not. The ordinance for that explosion only had one provenance: the United States.

I asked them to source their claim [0]. Let’s see if they can do it.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=39628938

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#728

Post by incognos »

gataca wrote: post #692
GordonS wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas The UN and Lancet [0] believe the numbers are credible. Let's not forget there are likely 10k+ civilians still burried under rubble too. > Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists Come on, you are not commenting in good faith. There is zero credible evidence that any rape took place, Hamas have staunchly denied it, and from what re…

[flagged]

Again debunked, the UN investigation did not speak to any victims or physicians that would validate the claim. The claims came from organizations known to have lied in the past. Why would Israel forbid the doctors involved from speaking to the UN?

(https://www.timesofisrael.com/government-forbids-doctors-fro...)

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#729

Post by incognos »

reducesuffering wrote: post #623
GordonS wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Setting aside the fact that these are numbers provided by Hamas The UN and Lancet [0] believe the numbers are credible. Let's not forget there are likely 10k+ civilians still burried under rubble too. > Hamas has miles of tunnels to provide cover for their rapists Come on, you are not commenting in good faith. There is zero credible evidence that any rape took place, Hamas have staunchly denied it, and from what re…

What happened to “believe women?” You think in a sudden 1143 person civilian homicidal attack, going door to door, no rape happened? “UN team says rape, gang rape likely occurred during Hamas attack on Israel” UN: “The mission team received clear and convincing information that sexual violence, including rape, sexualized torture, and cruel, inhuman and degrading treatment occurred against some women and children duri…

Where is your outrage for the ongoing rapes prior to october 7th and continuing to this day.

(https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/22/claims-of-isra...)

Re: Journalist casualties in the Israel-Gaza war

#730

Post by pierat »

Being in the USA, I look at what I can do, and it's effectively nothing.

There's the whole movement to 'not support any Democrat candidate's during the primaries, which is wavering the non-committed around 8-15%.

Aside sending a vote message to Biden, I'm powerless to do more.

Honestly, the US govt needs to quit selling/giving/loaning weaponry to Israel. Won't solve the problem, but at least we wouldn't be supporting it.

I try to focus on problems I can do something about. This ain't one of them.

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