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Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

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Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#721

Post by tedajax »

nemo44x wrote: post #697
tedajax wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is people watched their parents struggle to raise kids and decide they aren't going to do that to themselves or their hypothetical kids. There is more to do in a life than work and raise children.

Every single parent I'd wager that made those sacrifices and raised their family would tell you it was the best thing they ever did and that they'd do it again. If you've never been a parent you can't possibly understand it at all.

Yeah you're ignoring a lot of people's realities to swallow that propaganda so voraciously.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#722

Post by master_crab »

silisili wrote: post #397
bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Yes they can. People are just too selfish and think of kids as costing lattes and ruining their free time. Believe it or not, kids don't have to be expensive as reports have you believe. They can go to public school, wear hand me downs or walmart clothes, and eat what would have been leftovers. Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for n…

> Most coworkers with kids I've spoken with complain about costs of daycare, babysitting, and Montessori schools. We pay for none of those as they aren't necessary. If even one parent works from home, it's a solved problem. If both do not, evaluate the costs. Many times, you actually lose money by both parents working

Many (most?) people definitely don't have the luxury of having a parent stay at home.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#723

Post by lumost »

vidarh wrote: post #245
lumost wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having children has also become higher risk, both in absolute costs - as well as risks associated to the likely possibility of divorce and single-parenthood.

It had plenty of risks before too. Doing genealogy, e.g. of one of my great-great grandfather's children, several died young and left behind children, some ran away from responsibilities (one child - my grandmothers first cousin - ended up in care and was adopted because her mother was too poor to care for her and her dad ran off to the US with his brothers, and we didn't learn she existed until a few years after she…

I'm going to go out on a limb and say something that I "feel" is plausibly true, but I don't have any data to back it up. While life has been objectively harder in the recent past (prior 80 years), life is subjectively difficult today in a way that it wasn't for the past 200 years.

Folks often start out heavily in debt, then they must work competitive jobs which grow more competitive over time to tread water. The combination of sleep debt, social isolation, and general anxiety of going bust is a subjective difficulty which belies the relative comfort of modern life.

This is born out at least partially in the data where "occupational burnout" affects some 65% of employees in the last year.

https://www.supplychaindive.com/news/employee-burnout-2023-p....

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#724

Post by lolinder »

michaelt wrote: post #550
lolinder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unnecessarily confrontational and inaccurate. According to census.gov, the current national homeownership rate is hovering at about 66%, which is about the same rate that it's been (+/- 3%) since they started tracking in 1964 [0][1]. This isn't restricted to old people either: 49% of 30 to 34 year olds and 58% of 35 to 39 year olds owned a home in Q4 2023 [2]. There are certainly regional differences in housi…

> the average American lives in a home that they own by the time they're 35 According to [1] relative monthly fertility rates for women drop from 1.0 at age 30 to 0.65 at age 35 to 0.1 at age 40. If your society wants to raise birth rates, you can't rely on 35-40 year olds to do it. [1] https://www.britishfertilitysociety.org.uk/fei/at-what-age-d...

You also don't actually need to own a home in order to have kids. I spent the first 8 years of my life with 3 siblings in a tiny 2 bedroom apartment in a student housing development. We bought a home when I was 8, while my parents were in their 30s.

Plenty of other commenters had already pointed out that fallacy of OP's argument, so I decided to take on the idea that homeownership rates have significantly changed instead.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#725

Post by lumost »

opportune wrote: post #310
lumost wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been doing this math frequently of late. I'm 35, have one child and of my high school class ... maybe 25% have children? there is certainly a bias from polling social media. But the anecdata would say that we're closing on the point where millenials have chosen to simply not have children.

You probably grew up in a very wealthy and highly educated part of a major city. Not the case for 35 year olds in broad swathes of the country

Presuming that wealth and education are increasing in the general population - wouldn't this pose a problem for the future?

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#726

Post by npteljes »

Sankozi wrote: post #593
npteljes wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The "it's too hard to have kids" crew is selecting against themselves, evolutionary speaking. That won't last. That's not how it work. Evolution only selects for hereditary, biological factors, and even then, it's not a guarantee. "Stupid people" won't "die out" for the same reason.

Do you really think that situation when one decides "it's too hard to have kids" never has hereditary, biological causes (including indirect)? I think in vast majority of such situations hereditary factors are involved. It is really hard for me to imagine such situation that is completely independent from such factors.

It might have some influence, but not to the extent where, quoting OP, >>The "it's too hard to have kids" crew is selecting against themselves<<.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#727

Post by 11101010001100 »

sethammons wrote: post #475
lgkk wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might be due to some of us growing up really poor. I’m from a third world and I remember lack of water and electricity, five plus people crammed into a home the size of my current apartments living room. We used to use kerosene lamps and heat water and I grew up in the 90s. Even today my parents don’t own a home yet and they have rented their whole lives. They still work. It’s really up to me to resolve all our issue…

fwiw every 40yo I know who had kids at that age wish they did it earlier when they had more energy. Wealth building is easier in your 40s however for most

I didn't realize how physical raising a kid is. The chasing, the lifting, the playing ... they don't stop!

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#728

Post by lolinder »

mdorazio wrote: post #647
lolinder wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is unnecessarily confrontational and inaccurate. According to census.gov, the current national homeownership rate is hovering at about 66%, which is about the same rate that it's been (+/- 3%) since they started tracking in 1964 [0][1]. This isn't restricted to old people either: 49% of 30 to 34 year olds and 58% of 35 to 39 year olds owned a home in Q4 2023 [2]. There are certainly regional differences in housi…

Ownership is not affordability, which is the point of the parent poster that you're ignoring entirely. Recent headline: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/homes-for-sale-affordable-housi...

That's, as you say, recent. It bodes ill for the future if something doesn't change, but it can't possibly account for the long-term decline in birth rates being discussed here.

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#729

Post by HumblyTossed »

bongodongobob wrote: post #75

You're baffled people aren't having kids? What bubble do you live in? People straight up can't afford housing much less children. The avg American is completely priced out of owning a home right now. Edit: the replies - y'all are out of touch. Visit an average family in the Midwest with a household income of < $100k/yr that doesn't own a home yet.

Yeah, I don't get the replies. Even getting priced out of renting:

https://apnews.com/article/affordable-housing-rent-eviction-...

Re: Cousins are disappearing. Is this reshaping the experience of childhood?

#730

Post by anthonypasq »

silverquiet wrote: post #714
anthonypasq wrote: post #704

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Life is pretty miserable for most people. this is objectively untrue with respect to almost every single piece of data we have on this subject. Just because youre a misanthrope doesnt mean everyone else is.

I wonder - do you think the drop in fertility represents a rise in overall life satisfaction or a fall? I hadn't thought about it much myself, but it seems like it could go either way.

definitely a fall i would say. 80% of women who do not have children, either actually wanted children but couldnt have them, or regret not having them. the fertility crisis is a complete disaster on an incredible amount of levels for people and society. The fact governments arent doing more to address this is mind boggling

check out this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3i0uJ9IcQ-0

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