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Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

cointelegraph.com

721–730 of 1001 posts

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#721
post #713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Stronger" is tricky to measure. "Efficient" is bit better to measure. The introduction of standardized (and "policed") coins certainly opened up commerce a few thousand years back, but in the end it did not stop the Romans from taking over the Greek world, for example. There is a lot more to societies than money. Can you do huge damage to societies from hyperinflation - for sure, but outside of catastrophic failures…

> The introduction of standardized (and "policed") coins certainly opened up commerce a few thousand years back, but in the end it did not stop the Romans from taking over the Greek world, for example. Yes I'm assuming all else equal or when studied over a long period of time. Nowadays we can use our knowledge and intelligence to simply start using better money in advance. > Can you do huge damage to societies from h…

People are using it in advance, for example, by holding equity and other assets. Those who just want to store value in money haven't quite understood an economic system that isn't design to store but rather to produce.

I struggle to see shifts in earning power as a fiat issue. Why isn't it weaker unions in the US or UK, for example? Why not (de-)regulation or any other long list of things. The shifts in power are not a result of fiat or devaluation (why were only a few powerful in times with very hard money?). You can have places where less GDP is in the financial sector and still lower earnings cohorts had a miserable history (or even the median earner). Germany has a rather smaller banking sector than the US, but real earnings over that last 25 years have only moved a little (so has productivity).

The hope that somehow by changing the money a complex set of problems goes away is in error, I believe, and not helpful in addressing those issues. (You can also look at monetary reforms and see that those didn't magically solve all problems.)

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#722
post #645

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and you think Bitcoin will go to zero AFTER its available to every investor in the US through every finance app and is being sold by giant hedge funds? The reasoning is (I'm not saying I believe this will happen just that it is an interesting thought experiment) that if people quit the shady exchanges and start trading Bitcoin ETF in substantial numbers it could begin to starve the crypto network of transaction fee…

Why would ETFs become a main way? Bitcoin is still a currency, can I trade, holdl or spend my ETFs?

By definition you can do all 3. Spend by selling convert to fiat and then buy whatever you want. "Holdl"(sic) just say long despite what sanity or logic says. Trade buy/sell like anything else.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#723
post #531

My prediction is that Bitcoin will become fully institutionalized within twenty years, to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain. A similar thing happened with stocks. Not so long ago they used to be physical pieces of paper. You could trade shares peer-to-peer and even anonymously by handing over the share certificate to someone in person. For dividen…

It would be like trying to legislate to affect the value of gold.

Many countries try to do this. It has had almost no effect on the value of gold.

For example in the US in 1933 private ownership of gold bullion was punishable by 10 years imprisonment.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#724

Looks like these are the 11 tickers? Bitwise (BITB) ARK Invest/21Shares (ARKB) Invesco Galaxy Bitcoin ETF (BTCO) iShares Bitcoin Trust (IBIT) VanEck Bitcoin Trust (HODL) Franklin Bitcoin ETF (EZBC) Fidelity Wise Origin Bitcoin Trust (FBTC) WisdomTree Bitcoin Trust (BTCW) Valkyrie Bitcoin Fund (BRRR) Hashdex Bitcoin Futures ETF (DEFI) Grayscale Bitcoin Trust (GBTC)

Weird how the price went to 48k on fake news, with the potential to go even higher until revealed to be fake, but only 47k on the real news?

I think investors were spooked by the hack. The tweet situation was so unprofessional that they thought “something is wrong, ETF launch will be delayed by months”

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#725
post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" Nothing underlying it " is a pretty good description of crypto tokens in general.

Or fiat currency in general. Let's not pretend modern fiat is backed by something solid. The only thing backing it these days is the promise of our grandchildren & their grandchildren being good to pay back debt, eventually.

Aircraft carrier groups seem pretty solid to me

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#726
post #669
post #666

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The simple fact that there's no societies left using shells, beads, Rai stones, etc. Only the hardest money survived - gold. However although gold is hard, it fair to say that it was beaten somewhat by soft fiat money, simply due to the overwhelmingly better other monetary qualities of fiat (e.g. portability and divisibility) especially in the digital age. Bitcoin is a hard money that takes the best monetary qualitie…

> Bitcoin is a hard money that takes the best monetary qualities of both fiat and gold Not it doesen't. Also bitcoin is not money (why do people keep claiming this?), it's a speculative asset.

> Not it doesen't.

Okay

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#727
post #531

My prediction is that Bitcoin will become fully institutionalized within twenty years, to the point that the “Bitcoin” held by investors are entirely disconnected from the theoretical blockchain. A similar thing happened with stocks. Not so long ago they used to be physical pieces of paper. You could trade shares peer-to-peer and even anonymously by handing over the share certificate to someone in person. For dividen…

I won't argue what is going to happen. I do think if bitcoin were to go this way it would lose most of its fundamental value. As border restrictions, sanctions, KYC, tracking are all applied to the institutional coin, there would be little advantage in comparison to other instruments which generate yield or are more liquid.

In such a world the demand for a truly sovereign bitcoin would still exist, although using it may be out of reach for most, depending on how things play out.

The battle is on, in terms of finding ways to scale bitcoins sovereign transaction limit, and find ways to transact that can't easily be prevented with the wave of a regulator's pen.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#728
post #725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or fiat currency in general. Let's not pretend modern fiat is backed by something solid. The only thing backing it these days is the promise of our grandchildren & their grandchildren being good to pay back debt, eventually.

Aircraft carrier groups seem pretty solid to me

https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2010/january/fort...

Regularly sunk in joint exercises and simulations:

https://theaviationist.com/2015/03/05/us-aircraft-carrier-su...

https://www.eurasiantimes.com/entire-us-carrier-battle-group...

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#729
post #649

Finally a workaround for high transaction fees! This should also solve the scalability issues quite a bit by reducing the need to record as many transactions in the first place once the exchanges hold most of the coins. Finally this should reduce the long-term potential in mining as the block reward keeps reducing exponentially with lower expectations of transaction fees. Sometimes regulatory solutions do fix hard te…

I very highly doubt that trading ETFs has lower fees than Bitcoin. As monetary system Bitcoin, even more crypto in general, is still the one and only method to move money internationally in realtime with very low fees.

Yeah, ARKB, for example, charges 0.75% management fee. Meaning they charge that every year on total holdings. So the ETF is clearly more expensive than simply holding BTC. I think OP believes this will lead to lower BTC fees due to lower volume.

Re: Spot Bitcoin ETF receives official approval from the SEC

#730
post #650

A fantastically incompetent decision, just unbelievable.

Why? Supply and demand. If there is demand then it's fine. If there isn't any thats ok as well.

There's sizeable market failure in the form of externalities, in this case emissions tied to its energy usage.
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