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OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

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Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#721

Post by barbariangrunge »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

> The core of the narrative thus far

Could somebody clarify for me: how do we know this? Is there an official statement, or statements by specific core people? I know the HN theorycrafters have been saying this since the start before any details were available

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#722

Post by baron816 »

leetharris wrote: post #703
FartyMcFarter wrote: post #651

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. Maybe it has to do with them wanting to get rich by selling their shares - my understanding is there was an ongoing process to get that happening [1]. If Altman is out of the picture, it looks like Microsoft will assimilate a lot of OpenAI into a separate organisation and OpenAI's shares might become worthless. [1] https://www.f…

Yep. What people don't realize is that Microsoft doesn't own the data or models that OpenAI has today. Yeah, they can poach all the talent, but it still takes an enormous amount of effort to create the dataset and train the models the way OpenAI has done it. Recreating what OpenAI has done over at Microsoft will be nothing short of a herculean effort and I can't see it materializing the way people think it will.

Correct. This is all really bad for Microsoft and probably great for Google. Yet, judging by price changes right now, markets don’t seem to understand this.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#723

Post by jbombadil »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #659
mcny wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. I have no inside information. I don't know anyone at Open AI. This is all purely speculation. Now that that's out out the way, here is my guess: money. These people never joined OpenAI to "advance sciences and arts" or to "change the world". They joined OpenAI to earn money. They think they can make more money with Sam Altman in…

Really? If they work at OpenAI they are already among the highest lifetime earners on the planet. Favouring moving oneself from the top 0.5% of global lifetime earners to the top 0.1% (or whatever the percentile shift is) over the safe development of a potentially humanity-changing technology would be depraved. EDIT: I don't know why this is being downvoted. My speculation as to the average OpenAI employee's place in…

I don't know how much OpenAI pays. But for this reply, I'm going to assume it's in line with what other big players in the industry pay.

I legitimately don't understand comments that dismiss the pursue of better compensation because someone is "already among the highest lifetime earners on the planet."

Superficially it might make sense: if you already have all your lifetime economic needs satisfied, you can optimize for other things. But does working in OpenAI fulfill that for most employees?

I probably fall into that "highest earners on the planet" bucket statistically speaking. I certainly don't feel like it: I still live in a one bedroom apartment and I'm having to save up to put a downpayment on a house / budget for retirement / etc. So I can completely understand someone working for OpenAI and signing such a letter if a move the board made would cut down their ability to move their family into a house / pay down student debt / plan for retirement / etc.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#725

Post by fizx »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #651
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. Maybe it has to do with them wanting to get rich by selling their shares - my understanding is there was an ongoing process to get that happening [1]. If Altman is out of the picture, it looks like Microsoft will assimilate a lot of OpenAI into a separate organisation and OpenAI's shares might become worthless. [1] https://www.f…

My estimate is that a typical staff engineer who'd been at OpenAI for 2+ years could have sold $8 million of stock next month. I'd be pissed too.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#726

Post by throwaway4aday »

dayjah wrote: post #699
Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

Start ups thrive by, in part, creating a sense of camaraderie. Sam isn’t just their boss, he’s their leader, he’s one of them, they believe in him. You go to bat for your mates, and this is what they’re doing for him. The sense of togetherness is what allows folks to pull together in stressful times, and it is bred by pulling together in stressful times. IME it’s a core ingredient to success. Since OAI is very succes…

Not just Sam, since Greg stuck with Sam and immediately quit he set the precedent for the rest of the company. If you read this post[0] by Sam about Greg's character and work ethic you'll understand why so many people would follow him. He was essentially the platoon sergeant of OpenAI and probably commands an immense amount of loyalty and respect. Where those two go, everyone will follow.

[0] https://blog.samaltman.com/greg

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#727

Post by wenyuanyu »

I guess employees are compensated with stocks from the for profit entity. And at the face value before the saga, stocks could be like 90%, 95% or even more of the total value of their packages. How many people are really willing to wipe 90% of their salary out? Just to stick on the mission? On the other hand, M$ offers to match. The day employees are compensated with the stock of the for-profit arm, there is no way to return to nonprofit and their charter any more.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#728

Post by KRAKRISMOTT »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

Most of people building the actual ML systems don't care about existential ML threats outside of lip service and for publishing papers. They joined OpenAI because OpenAI had tons of money and paid well. Now that both are at risk, it's only natural that they start preparing to jump ship.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#729

Post by gdhkgdhkvff »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #659
mcny wrote: post #631

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. I have no inside information. I don't know anyone at Open AI. This is all purely speculation. Now that that's out out the way, here is my guess: money. These people never joined OpenAI to "advance sciences and arts" or to "change the world". They joined OpenAI to earn money. They think they can make more money with Sam Altman in…

Really? If they work at OpenAI they are already among the highest lifetime earners on the planet. Favouring moving oneself from the top 0.5% of global lifetime earners to the top 0.1% (or whatever the percentile shift is) over the safe development of a potentially humanity-changing technology would be depraved. EDIT: I don't know why this is being downvoted. My speculation as to the average OpenAI employee's place in…

If you were offered a 100% raise and kept current work responsibilities to go work for, say, a tobacco company, would you take the offer? My guess is >90% of people would.

Funny how the cutoff for “morals should be more important than wealth” is always {MySalary+$1}.

Don’t forget, if you’re a software developer in the US, you’re probably already in the top 5% of earners worldwide.

Re: OpenAI staff threaten to quit unless board resigns

#730

Post by dfps »

Emma_Goldman wrote: post #621

I don't really understanding why the workforce is swinging unambiguously behind Altman. The core of the narrative thus far is that the board fired Altman on the grounds that he was prioritising commercialisation over the not-for-profit mission of OpenAI written into the organisation's charter.[1] Given that Sam has since joined Microsoft, that seems plausible, on its face. The board may have been incompetent and shor…

Might there also be a consideration of peak value of OpenAI? If a bunch of competing similar AIs are entering the market, and if the usecase fantasy is currently being humbled, staff might be thinking of bubble valuation.

Did anyone else find Altman conspicuously cooperative with government during his interview at Congress? Usually people are a bit more combative. Like he came off as almost pre-slavish? I hope that's not the case, but I haven't seen any real position on human rights.

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