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Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

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Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#721

Post by red-iron-pine »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #641
peanuty1 wrote: post #602

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have far, far too many liberal arts graduates. There is a huge labor shortage that we need those people to fill in fields like restaurants, plumbing, nursing, construction, farming, etc.

There's no labor shortage. There's only a wage shortage. Restaurants are a particularly egregious example, as someone with firsthand experience. Restaurants treat their employees like shit, work them to the bone, and then pay them as little as humanly possible. I got out and never looked back, because it turns out people are willing to shower you in cash if you can string together 3 lines of Python. Healthcare as a w…

> Healthcare as a whole baffles me. They pay well enough, sometimes, but they also just treat their employees like absolute crap. Would it really break the bank to hire 25% more staff instead of having your entire workforce getting paid overtime week after week?

Them stocks gotta to up, mang.

Take a look at the Fortune 500, and look at how many healthcare companies are publicly traded and in the top 100.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#722

Post by red-iron-pine »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #692
frumper wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's crazy to see homes still selling with an increase in value of 10% from a year ago and interest rates more than doubled.

Wonder what percentage of this demand is organic home owners vs. investors (including foreign investors). There’s been massive capital movement across the globe. Money moving out of China and Russia in particular. And the gulf countries with a surplus of cash thanks to multiple years of expensive oil.

You can track political developments in China, Russia, and Saudi by the price of BTC and foreign housing (esp. places like Vancouver, Canada, or London, England).

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#723

Post by red-iron-pine »

dgellow wrote: post #588
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

Excuse my ignorance, but isn’t the point of public schools that they are free?

Public in what sense? Elementary through Secondary aka K-12 is, but is mandatory for students unless they take extra-ordinary measures to not be there, e.g. homeschooling, or dropping out at 16. Funding through this is usually handled on the state and local level, often by local property taxes.

Public Universities are ones funded by the state, to varying degrees.

Private Unis have their own funding, usually through a mix of tuition and large endowments.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#724

Post by red-iron-pine »

Xeronate wrote: post #162
TheRealDunkirk wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now I read that Wall Street is creating CDO's based on these loans, like they (continue to) do on mortgages. Some people die "early" without paying back these loans, and sometimes, they will owe more than they took out. Given the mounting problems with the numbers here, it seems a whole generation of people in the middle of this bubble are going to go to the grave while still owing on these loans. What happens to the…

Seems wrong to influence your son's decision based on your financial situation rather than his desires/passions. Of course if he's naturally interested in the trades then sure.

At $6k a year like in Canada or Europe... sure, follow the passion.

At $60k per annum... that's crippling debt.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#725

Post by Auracle »

aidenn0 wrote: post #183
codegeek wrote: post #41

It is free money for lenders because backed by the Govt AND protected against bankruptcy. It is Free money for colleges because they know they will get paid regardless. Remove this "free money guarantee" and watch how market corrects itself. When students can file for bankruptcy and/or the debt is not guaranteed by Govt, lenders would now use the same criteria they use to issue credit cards to 18 year olds. Hint: It'…

> Hint: It's tough to get your 1st credit card if you have no credit history in the US and most lenders will not even entertain that idea. Some will do if you put in a collateral like $500 of actual cash deposit to guard against the default risk. Is that true these days? At my university 20 years ago, the credit card companies would bribe 18-year-old freshmen to sign up for their cards.

I got my first credit card when I was twelve years old. This was back in the year 2000. It had something like a $10,000 credit limit.

My parents didn’t co-sign, though I did use their incomes for the “household income,” which I don’t believe was a lie.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#726

Post by Auracle »

tekknik wrote: post #710
FormerBandmate wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is also a massive difference between a $500 credit limit of hypothetical spending for a credit card and actually giving out $100,000 in an unsecured loan. At the worst case scenario, your credit card loss will probably on average be $50 per customer if not much less, but for unsecured student loans it will be much higher, which will require higher interest rates that further increase defaults. The reason studen…

> The reason student loans aren’t dischargeable in bankruptcy is because it’s basically literally impossible to collect on them, you can’t repo a college education You can revoke the degree. Given that most people out of school don’t remember most of school anyways this should be enough for most.

It’s not like employers would suddenly say, “oh, your degree was revoked? I guess that knowledge you acquired is gone and we can’t hire you.”

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#727

Post by imtringued »

chaxor wrote: post #452
willcipriano wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people desire not being poor over most other things.

If you don't want to be poor, don't go to university. Academia should be a place for people who run away from money, because it's the last thing upon the list of interests for them. Academia should be a place for joy in learning concepts, and in some circumstances, which strive to be useless. Mathematics is one of the most exemplary fields for this, which is summed up quite nicely with the following quote: "The mathe…

Meanwhile in the real world, large companies and public jobs all have practically mandatory education requirements. Your pay as a public employee in Germany is literally determined based on whether you have a BSC or MSC or none.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#728

Post by red-iron-pine »

gen220 wrote: post #335
taeric wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to see numbers on how many are actually discharged. My understanding is this is almost as akin to saying that the lottery does, in fact, pay out.

There's more paths to discharging than bankruptcy. Somebody I know had a medical emergency while in their repayment period. They were unable to work and went on to disability insurance, and eventually had their loans forgiven. I think they had to be on disability for a certain period of time (measured in years, iirc) before they were discharged. Eventually, they recovered sufficiently to be able to return to the work…

> I think they had to be on disability for a certain period of time (measured in years, iirc) before they were discharged.

In other words, basically borderline poverty for years before people realized it was never going to happen, and got lucky enough to get out of disability -- cuz a lot of people don't.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#729

Post by imtringued »

SoftTalker wrote: post #447
jrockway wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since there is pretty much no social safety net, people are probably going to find some sort of work even if they have a lot of student loan debt. And, the debt servicer can garnish those wages. You are essentially selling yourself into slavery if you take a student loan! (And the reasoning is so weird to me; I went to a state school and tuition was $750/semester. Why are people paying more unless they are extremely…

You're entirely right, but if I have $200K in debt for my useless undergrad degree, and I can only find a job at Starbucks, garnishment or not the bank is not getting their money back. The court will order some kind of payment, sure, but they'll prioritize me paying for rent and food.

As I have written in another comment. This scheme only works if the college is owned by the bank and the college is spending a tiny fraction of the tuition on the student.

Re: Tuition costs have risen 710% since 1983

#730

Post by imtringued »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #500
rayiner wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What "lenders," and what "market" are you talking about? 92% of all student debt was issued by the federal government. As a matter of social policy, the government does not meaningfully consider credit risk when issuing student loans.

The government taking credit risk into account would have such regressive results it would be hilarious. The cost of college would dramatically plunge for kids from rich families taking CS and finance classes and skyrocket for everyone else

You're saying this as if it hasn't happened already.

Less money for borrowing means students can only afford lower tuitions and colleges are incentivized to efficiently use your money.

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