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My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

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Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#721

Post by danaris »

toss1 wrote: post #486
tough wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why didn't they told them so, what a shitty professors

Good question, bad assessment. I'm pretty sure it was because it is actually the same situation in the real world — you're EXPECTED to have full command of all that information, yet need to filter it down in real time. If you are told to just skim forever, you don't ever face the real-world problem, and fail when you get there. EDIT typo

So rather than try to improve the situation by teaching them techniques for doing this winnowing and skimming, which would a) reduce the stress on their students (both in the class and in the real world), and b) increase the efficiency and productivity of the students once they were out there working, they instead chose to perpetuate the significantly more negative status quo.

That sounds like bad professors to me.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#722

Post by danaris »

randcraw wrote: post #438
bumby wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like, there was a time where this kind of personality type would just go get an MBA One nuance that may help explain how the change happened is how the status of CS has changed in the last 20 years. Maybe its just my age bias, but there seems to be a perceptible change of how CS majors are viewed by society and that changes the type of people attracted to that curriculum. It used to be that CS and engineering major…

I think computing in the 1980s was a very different enterprise than it is today. Back then it was about exploring a new world whose horizons were expanding fast, as processor speed and O/S capability grew seemingly without bound. IMHO it was the transition of the cutting edge away from technical to social after the web arose that changed the tenor of computing. Devices became secondary to connected apps, and the focu…

Despite how it often feels, "20 years ago" wasn't the 1980s.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#723

Post by igetspam »

everforward wrote: post #437
mirkules wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I combat this is by asking questions about their current jobs, then diving deep into the technical problems they faced. It requires a lot more preparation for each candidate, but it ensures it’s not a trivia test but a discussion. One of my favorite interviews (as an interviewer) was when a SDET candidate provided a link to their website. When I visited it there was an issue loading some page. So I asked him…

This. My other favorite is very open-ended questions. I mostly do ops-y interviews, and my favorite question is "what happens when you type 'curl https://google.com ' in a terminal and hit enter?" The question is so broad there isn't a "correct" answer to Google, and it crosses enough domains that any article they find is going to be too long to skim. Then I ask them to really zero in on some aspect of it they feel c…

I have a "greenfield" scenario I ask SRE candidates. I give them unlimited time, resources and money to build whatever systems they want to ensure that code is production ready before it goes to prod. The only constraint is that they will be the only person who ever has a pager, 24x7x365. Tell me how you make that work with high confidence that your life won't be ruined. It's not verbatim but that's the gist. So many paths to explore and I think it does a great job of leveling people.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#725

Post by Melchizedek »

hgsgm wrote: post #101
preommr wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironic then that the real test was to see who has flexible thinking to adjust to a dynamic situation and who mindlessly follows misconstrued advice. If you really wanted to challenge yourself there's nothing stopping you from doing extra excerises outside of class. Yes, your other classmates were wrong for cheating, but you're paying the university and they can't even be bothered to update the their tests because the…

When the rules of civilization change to the rules of the jungle, society collapses. Many societies have collapsed, even in modern times. It's not fun.

When you import people from the jungle, you eventually become the jungle.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#726

Post by strikelaserclaw »

hardwaregeek wrote: post #445

It's not surprising to me that people cheat or don't see cheating as bad. Cheaters literally do prosper. Like in college applications, you can absolutely write lies. Nobody's going to check if you were captain of the track team. Nobody's going to fact check your essay about how you came out as gay[1]. Even the people who don't cheat understand how to stretch and bend the truth. You take a minor event and turn it into…

it will get worse due to social media. Humans being herd animals, if we feel like cheaters are prospering our us, we will also start cheating, which will essentially destroy trust in society and make it a third world country.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#727

Post by P_I_Staker »

asimpletune wrote: post #115

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

I'll even go a step further. In some cases cheaters are doing better, because that kind of behavior is what's expected of them in "the real world", just don't get caught.

People with integrity get run over.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#728

Post by P_I_Staker »

chinchilla2020 wrote: post #478
asimpletune wrote: post #115

Reading some of the comments in this thread I'm surprised. It seems that a substantial number of people think one of the following: a.) cheating on interviews is ok, because interviews don't reflect the actual job b.) this is acceptable because the promotion process is distinct from the interview process or c.) that the cheaters clearly are skilled after all because of all their success, as evidenced by being promote…

It's the world we live in. * Candidates now lie about experience. * promotions are given for loyalty, not contribution. * Companies cheat on hiring using false job descriptions and fake career carrots. * Your performance at work does not matter. Advance your career by interview prep, not excelling at your role. * Prestige (ex-FAANG, Ivy league degree) matter more than hard work. I've noticed that tech companies are n…

> Management at tech companies is comprised of non-technical people.

Sometimes there's good reasons for this

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#729

Post by Shocka1 »

cromka wrote: post #668
mirkules wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I combat this is by asking questions about their current jobs, then diving deep into the technical problems they faced. It requires a lot more preparation for each candidate, but it ensures it’s not a trivia test but a discussion. One of my favorite interviews (as an interviewer) was when a SDET candidate provided a link to their website. When I visited it there was an issue loading some page. So I asked him…

The fact that most employers aren’t like you is keeping me from starting interviewing for a job after nearly 2 years of sabbatical. I simply refuse to participate in the typical interviewing process where I simply cannot show my skillset, 20+ years of experience and my diligence.

They are out there - when I was looking a few years back I would ask what the interview process is like. If whiteboard, I politely refused and tactfully said why. You won't be taking any FANGG positions, but there are plenty of positions out there that pay FANGG money minus the interview overhead. I've had some pretty great interviews when it turns into a conversation about a previous solution, or a project I'm working on, which have led to almost 100% offers. In contrast, I would do absolutely horrid in whiteboard or quiz-like interviews. Some people are built for it, but that's not me.

I had several bad experiences right out of school - I would regularly do programming exercises for recruiters and wasted a lot of my time I will never get back. Some of those exercises would take 3 to 5 hours, and I was told I was one of the faster candidates :/

Once I was able to build a resume and show off projects I told myself I would never go through that experience again.

I don't know if this comment will help you at all, but good luck to you! If you are in the Midwest area I know of a recruiter or two that are great people and can help get you pointed in the right direction. My email is in my profile.

Re: My friends who cheated in interviews are getting promoted (2022)

#730

Post by kevviiinn »

throw9away6 wrote: post #700
kevviiinn wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the long term success for cheating is actually much lower, those who actually learned things will do better in the long term even if they have a lower probability of short term success Many humans seem to be incredibly short sighted

The cheaters learn to cheat better that can be a better or equivalent level skill. Human lifetime are sort and human opportunity windows are even shorter. Not cheating put you at the mercy of variance as many now dead great people died in poverty

How about working to fix the system and make it more equitable rather than cheating or excusing cheating
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