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Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

congress.gov

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Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#721

Post by chemmail »

throwaway4837 wrote: post #176
withinboredom wrote: post #164

Maybe someone will scroll all the way down to this comment. Probably not. For half a decade, I have lived outside of the US, and I've watched as it has fallen to shit in slow motion. I make a decent chunk of income in USD and this terrifies me... but this. This move saddens me. There are only so many hours that congress has to make real decisions ... and this, this is what they spent their time on? Talking about how…

Sadly, it has nothing to do with "talking about how 'kids' might be influenced by an algorithm", because if it did, they would be trying to ban Facebook, Instagram, and other social media services that have the exact same effect as TikTok on children. This is really meant to be a punch in the fight against China. US government does not want any possibility of US citizens' data being in the hands of China and their qu…

Try using Tik Tok in China vs USA. The feeds are very different. The CCP has the influence to only allow more positive and educational topics on their social media. In the USA its the EXACTLY OPPOSITE. Whether you can blame culture, the government, whatevers, something needs to be done. USA media is out of control and if the gov needs to have a hand in it, let them.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#722

Post by chemmail »

pixl97 wrote: post #425
boopmaster wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure which part of our national security surveillance state apparatus is endangered by foreign ownership, but I assume at face value that there is some very embarrassing facts that our local spooks are not keen to share with China. What does the great firewall of America look like, from the infrastructure & interface angle? Would we want to share that with China? Your Google searches and all your metadata tha…

>China has no jurisdiction over you… there’s no real punishing to relate to what you have viewed on TikTok, so why are your viewing habits a threat to national security? I mean, I mostly agree with what your saying above this, but this particular line I disagree with. People get blackmailed all the time for different reasons. If I'm looking for a person in a hardware/software company that has weaknesses, having a ful…

"Traditional" hacking is getting pretty rough, basically a gamble to find an exploit, social engineering will be the easiest vector to attack something. Being able to gather data and influence will make it that much easier. I mean even Jeff Bezos got hacked by his Saudi "friends."

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#723

Post by mike50 »

jacobolus wrote: post #364
FormerBandmate wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yeah, ByteDance directly takes orders from the Chinese government. Big Tech can also take orders from the American government, but America is bound by the rule of law and isn't actively imprisoning millions in concentration camps so it's way better

America’s political system also has plenty of problems, so any absolute comparison is easy to pick at or "what-about", as other commenters are doing. But more to the point here, the American government responds to pressure from the electorate and U.S.-based stakeholders, which the Chinese government by and large does not.

Funny way to say Corn and Lobbyists.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#724

Post by throwawaylinux »

dang wrote: post #720
throwawaylinux wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure I'll try to do better, I'm sorry. Would you apply the same rules to people escalating, calling me names, being snarky, etc in the same thread?

Appreciated! Yes, if that's what they were doing, but I'd have to see specific links. (For example I don't think https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35366985 broke the site guidelines although it wasn't entirely un-edgy either.)

I don't have a problem with the comment you linked. But this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35366133 kicked off the snark with the first sentence, and quickly escalated to namecalling, calling me a liar a few comments later.

So yes I should have just ignored them or kept the higher ground, but sometimes that kind of trolling sucks me in.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#725

Post by kelipso »

throwaway29812 wrote: post #706
kelipso wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have experienced this every time I go out if the country for two weeks and come back. Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. The feeling of personal freedom I have feels like it gets wrenched away whenever I enter the US. The talk of freedom in America is basically cope for having no personal freedom. Wherev…

> Main thing I notice is the fear I sense in people whenever cops are nearby, and definitely the sense of this security state hovering over everyone. As someone that has lived in a police state before, I can't tell you that your feelings in the US aren't valid. They are yours alone. But perhaps travel somewhere were actual security forces search you randomly, harass you for no reason, etc. Experiences I have never ha…

You lived in a shithole, so what? 80% of a shithole is still a shithole.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#726

Post by dang »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #724
dang wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciated! Yes, if that's what they were doing, but I'd have to see specific links. (For example I don't think https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35366985 broke the site guidelines although it wasn't entirely un-edgy either.)

I don't have a problem with the comment you linked. But this https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35366133 kicked off the snark with the first sentence, and quickly escalated to namecalling, calling me a liar a few comments later. So yes I should have just ignored them or kept the higher ground, but sometimes that kind of trolling sucks me in.

I don't think the first sentence of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35366133 was snarky. Interpretations differ, of course, and often by quite a bit when someone is speaking to you personally, but FWIW that sounds rather neutral to my ear.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#727

Post by pc_edwin »

pc_edwin wrote: post #440

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer nor a legal/constitutional expert. TLDR: The bill doesn't ban TikTok, it gives the executive branch the power to ban companies like Tiktok. IMO this is an entirely reasonable measure. As someone with strong libertarian leanings, I am generally opposed to the trend of the executive branch gaining arbitrary legislative authority but this bill appears entirely reasonable to me despite some c…

Upon further research, I retract this comment. I wont delete it for the sake of transparency.

My initial reading of the text was that it gives the executive branch the right to force companies from a selected list of "foreign adversaries" to divest if it deems it a threat to national security.

I personally believe thats entirely reasonable both from a national security and trade-relations point of view but upon further research this bill looks like an extension of the Patriot Act giving the executive branch

Heres the new information regarding the vagueness that changed my mind: - It punishes citizens for using the "banned" product. - It gives way more arbitrary power to the secretary of commerce to decide whats a threat to national security than I initially realised. - It allows the government to regulate VPN, essentially removing our write to privacy.

As a side note, this is exactly why many people like me have trust issues with the government and other institutions. I don't understand how these smart lawyer types don't realise the immense damage they are doing to public trust.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#728

Post by hellojesus »

Gigachad wrote: post #25
charlieflowers wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real concerns, in order of importance, are: 1. This is a way of getting memes to the masses that we (the US political establishment) can't fully control. 2. Meta and others are getting their asses kicked revenue-wise by Tik Tok. Like any business, they'd use anything they could to fight back. Turns out they can use China fear mongering, so they are. 3. (Added) Believe it or not, there's nationalistic pride here.…

When the memes involve destroying the school bathrooms and stealing cars. It's probably worth considering what control is had over it.

Why don't we put the ownership of the actions back on the individuals? Presumably you and I would never destroy private property because it became a viral trend. We need parents to step up and educate their children on responsible decision making, and those breaking laws* should be held accountable.

*laws that protect a negative externality for an involuntary transactor.

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#729

Post by hellojesus »

somedude895 wrote: post #111
bigmattystyles wrote: post #106

I feel like they could have done this by creating a bill saying that US social media companies must be given the same access and freedoms to the Chinese market as TikTok has to ours. It would put the onus back on the CCP, they would never allow it and they would get TikTok banned in the US without being the ones to directly ban it. I am sure someone smarter than I can tell me why this is not a viable strategy.

Because market access is not the reason they're banning it. It wouldn't be very believable to now act like it's about a different issue than national security. You'd basically be saying "if you give us market access, then we'll let you spy on our citizens." In a democracy you get the types of discussions that we've been seeing about TikTok, so that door's shut now. This sort of "trickery" only really works for author…

It doesn't seem like they're shooting on our citizens to me. Rather it seems US citizens are voluntarily giving the CCP their data.

It's no secret that apps collect data. It's how they exist! Each American with it installed has made the decision to give the app creators their data, which means that anyone that wants the data can get it from the app creators.

Why are we blaming China for the deciduous of individuals?

Re: Senate Bill to Ban TikTok

#730

Post by throwaway29812 »

throwaway29812 wrote: post #704
firen777 wrote: post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are small fish watching Twitch and Pornhub, couple of weeks, maybe. If you are a dissidents influencer or online figure, on the other hand, you will be lucky to even be found out why you disappeared.

We still don't know where this woman is: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/kassycho/chinese-woman-... And more recently: https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/22/china/china-zero-covid-protes...

Oh no, it gets worse: https://hongkongfp.com/2022/09/26/father-of-chinese-ink-girl...
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