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'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

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Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#721

Post by vsareto »

twblalock wrote: post #473
titzer wrote: post #299

Quoth Zuck: > “And part of my hope by raising expectations and having more aggressive goals, and just kind of turning up the heat a little bit, is that I think some of you might just say that this place isn’t for you. And that self-selection is okay with me.” Wow. Just. Wow. Why not inject some more dysfunction into an already strained relationship with employees and callously but passively aggressively deal with a s…

I've been at places where I would love to hear the CEO say that. Being forced to work with poor performers, lazy people, and people who deliver poor quality results is frustrating and demoralizing. Those kinds of people can stick around for years, especially in good times when the company is making so much money that leadership doesn't need to care. Netflix is one of the few large companies that has a culture of cull…

Biggest issue here are workaholics, over-achievers, and extremely talented people setting unhealthy standards for everyone else.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#722

Post by allenu »

jjslocum3 wrote: post #91

Glad these guys seem to finally be noticing. I was a software engineering manager at a lean, high-margin, profitable start-up based in the NYC area starting in the late 2000s. We were acquired in 2014 by a very typical (for the time) SV-based competitor that had raised hundreds of millions in an IPO a few years earlier. Our acquirers had yet to see a single quarter of profit, of course. I and my team had so many good…

I agree that there is definitely a sense of entitlement in this industry, especially with these larger companies. On the other hand, if you’re coming from a startup, you’re going to be way more incentivized to put in the work since that ultimately determines your future (and likely, your pay). These guys playing basketball in the middle of the day are getting paid either way, regardless of how well their projects turn out. I don’t blame them. I’ve been at those cushy jobs and doing extra work often doesn’t get rewarded anyway, so you may as well maximize your quality of life.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#723

Post by D-Coder »

8note wrote: post #386
bobobob420 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly the mindset of failure. The team standup has 10x more priority than some dumb basketball league

High intensity physical activity keeps you in shape both physically and mentally. Standup everyday with people burnt out and depressed due to a lack of excercise and poor nutrition is a recipe for failure too.

"High intensity physical activity..." is exactly one of the things I DON'T want. Any programming position that wants me out of my chair for exercise... nope.

I'll deal with exercise and nutrition on my own time, thank you very much.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#724

Post by tssva »

'“There are real concerns that our productivity as a whole is not where it needs to be for the head count we have. [We need to] create a culture that is more mission-focused, more focused on our products, more customer-focused,” he said. '

That sounds like a CEO that has failed on a few significant counts. Maybe the first change needed is a new CEO.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#725

Post by bskap »

jedberg wrote: post #325
afro88 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems crazy to me, but I don't work in FAANG. A basketball game (I'm assuming recurring) during work hours? Quality of life from inside work? Are you all at campus for most of your day (ie, longer than 8h?) To me, quality of life is working hard and smart during the 8h, and keeping the rest of the day for you and your family. Quality of life comes from outside work, and the company respects and encourages that b…

Pre-pandemic, Google stopped serving breakfast at 8 and started dinner at 7. A lot of the younger folks were there for 11 hours every day so they could get all three meals. If you're there that long, you need to take breaks once in a while, which they of course provided plenty of options. They even had laundry machines on site so that you could do laundry between meetings.

Breakfast stopped at 10, not 8. Dinner started at 6, but most people didn't stay for it.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#726

Post by dpedu »

shagie wrote: post #257
jjslocum3 wrote: post #91

Glad these guys seem to finally be noticing. I was a software engineering manager at a lean, high-margin, profitable start-up based in the NYC area starting in the late 2000s. We were acquired in 2014 by a very typical (for the time) SV-based competitor that had raised hundreds of millions in an IPO a few years earlier. Our acquirers had yet to see a single quarter of profit, of course. I and my team had so many good…

> The explanation I arrived at was that such perqs were the necessary counterpart to an expectation that your employees have no life other than work. {soapbox} I believe a lot of companies are trying to establish a third place ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place and https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2003/02/28/20030228/ ) to help transition new grads and young adults from a college atmosphere to a professional a…

I don't think the Facebook woodshop fits the definition of a Third place. It's just another room at your employer's office. People using this facility are still AT work, just not working and anything that happens there is going to happen by your employer's rules. Perhaps this view is affected by my personal stance of never ever ever using employer-owned perks like this because it's just a trick to keep you there longer. I much prefer to pay for access to a hackerspace than use that shop facebook offers. And, wouldn't a hackerspace be a true Third place anyway?

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#727

Post by throwawaysleep »

> Meanwhile, Zuckerberg noticed that it was getting harder to get all the employees to attend a meeting as they were sometimes taking time out in a day for personal work.

I have repeatedly logged into large meetings people demanded I attend and promptly gone to sleep or when I worked in the office, I would show up and then spend a half hour sitting on the toilet.

The problem is that the meeting really isn't important.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#728

Post by codefreeordie »

danaris wrote: post #339
codefreeordie wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rest and vest" is a phrase that gets bandied about often -- including by people who are trying to do it. I couldn't tell you what fraction of employees, but there are folks hiding in all of the big tech companies that are happy with their comp, aren't trying to advance, and have adopted the "do the minimum to not get fired" approach to their work. If too many of these get together in one org or on one team, the whol…

> that are happy with their comp, aren't trying to advance Why does this > and have adopted the "do the minimum to not get fired" approach to their work necessarily have to go with this? What's wrong with deciding "I don't need to advance further; I like the work I do, I make enough money; I don't need to be hustling anymore"? It seems to me the concept of "enough" is hard to grasp for a lot of people, especially tho…

It doesn't.

There are lots of people who are comfortable where they are and continue to do solid work. I'd say that's probably almost half of folks at the mid-career levels in the big tech companies. This is actually why rest-and-vesters are so damaging. If you get a couple of these people on your team, they tend to bring down the morale of the much larger group who are earning their keep.

It's easy to be happy getting paid your current rate for doing a good solid job. But, it is really hard to stay happy in that situation if the person sitting next to you is getting paid the same, but doing almost-but-not-quite nothing.

In this situation, the previously-happy-worker types tend to either 1) seek a new team where they're not working with a rest-and-vester, or 2) slowly degrade into emulating the rest-and-vester because they feel demotivated and that their work isn't appreciated (since it isn't being appreciated more than the rest-and-vester's non-work)

Good managers identify this situation and put the rest-and-vester on notice to shape up (many of them will if you work with them -- many of them used to be the previously-happy-worker but at some point got poisoned and just need to have the callouses removed. (And a few of them just need the boot)

--

On the other hand, in tech really you are either growing or dying. That doesn't mean that you have to be growing in promotion/job-ladder-shaped ways. But if you're not learning something and growing in some way, you're probably regressing.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#729

Post by colinmhayes »

tomuli38 wrote: post #548
colinmhayes wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it’s not unreasonable to think they needed those people then, but now they don’t. If you’ve got 40,000 people worth of work and 70,000 people some of them aren’t going to be productive. Just because you had 70,000 people worth of work last year doesn’t mean they’re still productive this year.

Then say that and don't blame employee laziness for poor planning.

I didn’t see them call the employees lazy. They said they weren’t productive. And again calling a conscious decision to hire people you won’t need in a couple years isn’t necessarily poor planning. If being the first to release a product gives you a big advantage it’s probably a good idea to hire all those people in the right situation.

Re: 'Too many employees, but few work': Pichai, Zuckerberg sound the alarm

#730

Post by croes »

groffee wrote: post #647
darth_avocado wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a dead weight and I’ll never be, but I also do absolutely bare minimum to not get fired. And by bare minimum, I mean, I will always finish my work in the time it is expected to be finished. And if the expectations are higher, I’ll move on to another job. I do this as a way to get back at corporate America. Too many companies get away with sucking out their employees dry and firing them once they can’t meet t…

> I am not a dead weight and I’ll never be, but I also do absolutely bare minimum to not get fired. That's the literal definition of dead weight.

>I mean, I will always finish my work in the time it is expected to be finished.

But this isn't what a dead weight does.

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