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On anti-crypto toxicity

blog.mollywhite.net

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Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#721

Post by eimrine »

tablespoon wrote: post #479
eimrine wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technology does not solve political problems. Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem.

> Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem. That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card.

Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#722

Post by fidelramos »

easrng wrote: post #555
Consultant32452 wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Underlying all of our financial transactions is debt. Even an ACH transfer is a very temporary debt in a network of trust. That's why people with "bad credit" can't get accounts at traditional banks. This hurdle does not exist in crypto. I'm not suggesting crypto is some panacea, but it does eliminate this very important problem for people on the bottom of the economic ladder.

You can't pay for groceries with crypto. The easiest way to transfer money people can actually use without a bank account is probably texting someone a prepaid card number, though for low amounts the purchase fee is kind of a lot. Crypto is good for circumventing the legal system (ex. getting DIY HRT where it's not legal) but for most basic needs it's not very useful.

> You can't pay for groceries with crypto.

Some people can pay for groceries with crypto, for example in Slovenia there is a supermarket chain that accepts Bitcoin Cash (BCH) [0]. map.bitcoin.com [1] displays local businesses that accept crypto.

Then there is acceptbitcoin.cash [2] which lists online stores and services that accept Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin and/or other cryptocurrencies.

That is one of the main things I like about Bitcoin Cash: it focuses on user adoption as money and not as a store or value or speculation investment. Avoiding the exchange to fiat money is essential for P2P electronic cash like Bitcoin was meant to be.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61kQ4-0a1p8

[1] https://map.bitcoin.com/

[2] https://acceptbitcoin.cash/

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#723

Post by ekianjo »

varjag wrote: post #107
ekianjo wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that isn’t deflationary So you believe inflation is a good thing?

Inherently deflationary asset guarantees it's going to be used as a speculation vehicle rather than money.

> it's going to be used as a speculation vehicle rather than money.

I see this claim time and time again, but it's hardly convincing. Deflationary assets don't exist in a vacuum, they compete with inflationary assets that create value over time (such as stocks), and it's not a binary decision as to which one is going to be the best investment/use of your money. Additionally, the value of pretty much anything (whether deflationary or inflationary) is hardly a factor of their availability in the future but rather their actual or perceived utility at a precise moment in time.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#724

Post by thinkmassive »

k__ wrote: post #651
thinkmassive wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right that Bitcoin is still the most valuable because it’s resistant to frivolous changes, however there’s far more development happening in the space today than ever before! Here’s links to 3 full days of talks from the Open Source Stage at the Bitcoin 2022 conference: https://twitter.com/ODELL/status/1513487641538269188 Each YouTube video is about 5 hours long and broken into chapters per talk.

Aren't like all major tokens following BTC? If BTC fell, ETH fell too.

Yes, and Bitcoin has maintained its 41% dominance over the past 4 years despite the number of altcoins increasing by 10x over that period.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#725

Post by eldenwrong »

OGWhales wrote: post #216
eldenwrong wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You should elaborate after making such a claim, otherwise your comment will be dismissed as meaningless.

He contradicts himself multiple times and has an extremely shallow understanding of what money is/should be

People have been crying for more than 10 years that Bitcoin is bad because "volatility".

You can't help people not wanting to spend a few hours learning the basics

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#726

Post by tablespoon »

eimrine wrote: post #721
tablespoon wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Bitcoin has solved an international transaction of money which were political problem. That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card.

Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business.

>> That is a problem that was already solved. I've personally bought things from foreign countries (in person, and via mail order) with a credit card.

> Try to buy something from not-so-friendly urisdiction. And you will see the difference between storytelling and business.

Give an actual example, rather than a vague hand-waving hypothetical.

Some random points:

1. For mail order: paying is only part of it. Shipping is just as important. Are you hypothesizing a "not-so-friendly [j]urisdiction" where international payment difficult but international mail is easy?

2. For in person: would the person prefer my crisp American dollars or dicking around with Bitcoin addresses and waiting hours for transactions to confirm?

3... I could go on.

My general problem with cryptocurrency "use cases" are they tend to assume the utility of cryptocurrency, ignore alternative solutions, and latch on to some narrow aspect of a situation when zooming out even a little would reveal contradictions and problems.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#727

Post by hypertele-Xii »

throwaway4aday wrote: post #712
hypertele-Xii wrote: post #690

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So... how? You speak as if you have solved corruption. Let's hear it.

You could start with a lot more transparency. Everything that isn't critical to the defense of the nation should be public and auditable. Hot button issues like stock trading while in office, term limits and corporate lobbying could be fixed with simple laws if you ignore the whining of current office-holders. If you want to be more drastic, then start shifting power away from the federal government and towards local…

"We could change everything if the status quo stopped resisting" is very self-evident, and not at all helpful.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#728

Post by boppo1 »

TomSwirly wrote: post #407
Quindecillion wrote: post #122

It's unfortunate that Bitcoin has become so mired in partisan politics. For me its purpose is simple. If my money is a representation of my time and effort, why should I accept the central banks' inflation "target" of even 2%, due to money printing? I don't see why anyone should be okay with that, particularly given that central banks rarely meet that target for long and more often than not overshoot by a significant…

The answer is this - a slightly inflationary currency offers the greatest good for the greatest number. It encourages people to _invest_ their money so it doesn't lose value. Deflationary currencies encourage people to _hoard_ money as a viable strategy, and the more people hoard, the more valuable it becomes. In a society where the most profitable and safe strategy is simply to hold your money and do nothing with it…

> a slightly inflationary currency offers the greatest good for the greatest number. It encourages people to _invest_ their money so it doesn't lose value.

>Deflationary currencies encourage people to _hoard_ money as a viable strategy, and the more people hoard, the more valuable it becomes.

What's the primary source for this theory?

I hear it espoused a lot but it seems counter-intuitive. People still have to buy food, shelter and clothing in a deflationary environment.

Maybe if I read the larger arguments in works that established the idea I can get a better grasp on it.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#729

Post by Werewolf255 »

OGWhales wrote: post #340
Werewolf255 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think some inflation is good as it is an incentive to invest in capital projects. If you only have deflation, why shouldn't you hoard your wealth? I mean, since it's always going to be worth more tomorrow than today. Inflation is a shadow that people use to excuse their greed

This is something I’ve thought about and while I agree that a deflationary currency would be detrimental to our constant economic growth, I wonder if that’s actually a bad thing. Do we really want constant growth and pointless consumerism knowing what it is doing to our environment? Maybe a deflationary currency would be good, as people wouldn’t want to spend it on frivolous things and only use it to buy things they…

While this is the most thoughtful comment, it seems like without the effective equivalent of population caps, price controls, and a large redistribution network, a deflationary system would involve people fighting over progressively smaller pieces of the pie, while those who have more than enough continue to take a smaller amount of their resources over time until the effective expenditures of the wealthy are effectively zero. This also would effectively bar new entrants to the system, so children, those with little access to tech and energy resources, and those in developing counties.

Re: On anti-crypto toxicity

#730

Post by throwaway4aday »

hypertele-Xii wrote: post #727
throwaway4aday wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could start with a lot more transparency. Everything that isn't critical to the defense of the nation should be public and auditable. Hot button issues like stock trading while in office, term limits and corporate lobbying could be fixed with simple laws if you ignore the whining of current office-holders. If you want to be more drastic, then start shifting power away from the federal government and towards local…

"We could change everything if the status quo stopped resisting" is very self-evident, and not at all helpful.

What change is possible without breaking the status quo?
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