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Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

reuters.com

721–730 of 860 posts

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#721
Imho is Apple not so much privacy focused.

From my network logs, my iPhone is always connected to Apple servers.

Moving the locked iPhone a little bit on the table, very often it establishes a connection to Apple. Why?

If I block all Apple servers, my iPhone tries continously connect to Apple servers - which seems to drain the battery very fast.

Some years ago, I asked Apple wheter it is possilbe to switch of these 'connections'. Answer: No, I have to trust Apple.

WH

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t like that system, but according to their summary document, CSAM detection system is only (as described today) processing images that are uploaded to iCloud. [1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Expanded_Protections_...

Please look more carefully at that document. It says, on page 5: "Instead of scanning images in the cloud, the system performs on-device matching using a database of known CSAM image hashes provided by NCMEC and other child safety organizations." And look at the diagram. The matching of image hashes with user photos occurs "on device."

I know that scanning is done by one’s device.

I just think that there are better arguments against it without unnecessary exaggeration. So I wanted to be more specific on which images on your device are scanned according to that paper.

Obviously I should have phrased is better, like “about to be uploaded to iCloud”…

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This blog post got a lot of commentary on HN a couple days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28118350 . iMessages are already E2E encrypted, but you are correct, iCloud backups are decryptable with a warrant (and that was reportedly added at the FBI's request). But I agree with Ben Thompson's point in that blog post, that it's OK to not have strong, unbreakable encryption be the default, and that it's still p…

> But I agree with Ben Thompson's point in that blog post, that it's OK to not have strong, unbreakable encryption be the default, and that it's still possible to use an iPhone without iCloud and get full E2E. I disagree completely on this. For one, users aren't aware that using iCloud means that Apple has your decryption key and can thereby read and share all of your phone's data. And two, opt-out is a dark pattern.…

Indeed, up until reading these comments I had no idea that iCloud wasn’t encrypted.

Everything about Apples messaging makes you believe otherwise. That seems pretty disingenuous.

Then again, 99% of consumers have very little choice that doesn’t include huddles and complicated setup. We all get the same moon goo, under a differ different brands.

Good, bad, or just the fact of life?

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#725

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their TV scans every frame displayed and every word said if it sees anything the TV manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their blender has an array of chemical sensors in it, and if it detects a substance the manufacturer thinks is ill…

> Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? FYI most (all?) modern printers will refuse to print anything they think is counterfeit money, and will include a unique code traceable back to you in every printed document. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

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Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their TV scans every frame displayed and every word said if it sees anything the TV manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their blender has an array of chemical sensors in it, and if it detects a substance the manufacturer thinks is ill…

> Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? FYI most (all?) modern printers will refuse to print anything they think is counterfeit money, and will include a unique code traceable back to you in every printed document. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

Printers may do this but it doesn't call the police on them

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they could enact repressive measures because they had almost absolute power. The form that oppression took would obviously rely on the then current technology, but the fundamental enabler of oppression was power, not technology.

Power which was extended through the use of said technology. I'm fine with focusing on regressive hierarchical systems as the fundamental root of oppression but pretending like the information and mechanical technology introduced in the late 19th century to early 20th century did not massively increase the reach of the state is just being ridiculous. Prior to motorised vehicles and the telegraph for example, borders…

There's a flipside to this, too: technology doesn't just improve the ability of the state to enforce law (or social mores), it also improves the ability of it's subjects to violate it with impunity.

Borders in medieval Europe weren't nearly as necessary because the physical ability to travel was limited. Forget traveling from Germany to France - just going to the next town over was a life-threatening affair without assistance and wealth. Legally speaking, most peasant farmers were property of their lord's manor. But practically speaking, leaving the manor would be quite difficult on your own.

Many churches railed against motor vehicles because the extra freedom of movement they made possible also broke sexual mores - someone might use that car to engage in prostitution! You see similar arguments made today about birth control or abortion.

Prior to the Internet, American mass communication was effectively censored by the government under a series of legally odd excuses about public interest in efficiently-allocated spectrum. In other words, this was a technical limitation of radio, weaponized to make an end-run around the 1st Amendment. Getting rid of that technical limitation increased freedom. Even today, getting banned from Facebook for spouting too much right-wing nonsense isn't as censorious as, say, the FCC fining you millions of dollars for an accidental swear word.

Whether or not a technology actually winds up increasing or reducing freedom depends more on how it's distributed than on just how much of it there is. Technology doesn't care one way or the other about your freedom. However, freedom is intimately tied to another thing: equity. Systems that economically franchise their subjects, have low inequality, and keep their hierarchies in check, will see the "technology dividend" of increased freedom go to their subjects. Systems that impoverish people, have high inequality, and let their hierarchies grow without bound, will instead squander that dividend for themselves.

This is a feedback effect, too. Most technology is invented in systems with freedom and equality, and then that technology goes on to reinforce those freedoms. Unequal systems squander their subjects' ability to invent new technologies. We didn't see this with Nazi Germany, because the Allies wiped them off the map too quickly; but the Soviet Union lost their technological edge over time. The political hierarchy they had established to replace the prior capitalist one made technological innovation impractical. So, the more you use technology to restrict, censor, or oppress people, the more likely that your country falls behind economically and stagnates. The elites at the top of any hierarchical system - aside from the harshest dictatorships - absolutely do not want that happening.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their TV scans every frame displayed and every word said if it sees anything the TV manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? Or their blender has an array of chemical sensors in it, and if it detects a substance the manufacturer thinks is ill…

> Who wants their printer to scan every document they print, and if it sees something the printer manufacturer thinks is illegal it's reported to the police? FYI most (all?) modern printers will refuse to print anything they think is counterfeit money, and will include a unique code traceable back to you in every printed document. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_Identification_Code

Well, looks like I'm never buying a new printer.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#729
A bit off topic, but I'm amazed about the huge media attention this is getting, while a far more serious precedent is being set in the EU, completely banning all private communications between individuals:

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/message-screening/?la...

The short version is: all communication providers may include back doors and analyse messages of users with the same excuse. The follow-up is to make this mandatory. In practice, this will be a ban on any end-to-end encrypted communications.

Re: Apple's child protection features spark concern within its own ranks: sources

#730
post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who wants to be the government who shuts down Apple? These are politicians we are talking about.

Those already doing far worse than banning a consumer electronics company's products? And, in all honesty, there's a lot of those.

I meant in the context of U.S. governments. What Democrat administration wants to ban Apple? What Republican administration wants to ban Apple?

Sounds like political suicide on either side: government interference with the country's largest company, an iconic brand, for no reason other than to hopefully spy more on your citizens.

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