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Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

economist.com

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Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#721

Post by viceroyalbean »

oytis wrote: post #625
j_wtf_all_taken wrote: post #615

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're saying parties in Europe are interchangeable? We know what happens with Covid due to science, modeling and stuff. But a virus spread is oretty easy to model compared to a society and its economy. So until now it worked really nice, haven't seen a lot of studies saying it won't in the future, rather the opposite. Edit: or do you mean because we're getting older and hace fewer kids? Yeah that'll be a challang…

> So you're saying parties in Europe are interchangeable? No, not at all. But you don't have the same party ruling in U.S. for several decades. That would be legally possible, but that just doesn't happen due to how the system works. > So until now it worked really nice I'm not very well versed with the statistics here. But my impression is that social security is on decline. Welfare benefits sum grows much slower th…

>But you don't have the same party ruling in U.S. for several decades

It depends on what country you're talking about, but looking at which party is the biggest/who the prime minister is and summing it up as the "ruling party" is a gross oversimplification of the power dynamics in a parliamentary democracy. The power balance shifting between smaller parties can bring about huge effects on the government and the policies that are passed.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#722

Post by isbvhodnvemrwvn »

andrewxdiamond wrote: post #41
underwater wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, Steve Jobs rejected conventional medicine when he became sick, which may have contributed to his premature death.

It’s almost as if experts in one area (business) are often novices in other areas (medicine)

I wouldn't call someone who doesn't listen to doctors "a novice" in medicine, I'd call them a moron.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#723

Post by hollerith »

pydry wrote: post #720
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> previous range of state of the art smartphones did come from Europe Right, but where are they now ? The article says in just its third paragraph that "Europe used to pack a punch." Up to 2000, "nearly a third of the combined value of the world’s 1,000 biggest listed firms was in Europe, and a quarter of their profits." That aligns with the state of the art having a home in Europe around then. But something changed…

>That aligns with the state of the art having a home in Europe around then. Does it? Bigger doesn't mean more state of the art. Comcast isn't state of the art. Exxon isn't state of the art. Most big companies aren't Apple. Moreover, the size of American companies is somewhat exaggerated cos of liquidity being pumped into the stock market.

The US gov didn't pump liquidity directly into the stock market: they reduced the cost of borrowing, which increased investment in basically everything, e.g., collectible baseball cards. My point is that investors bid up the price of European stocks as well as US stocks.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#724

Post by splithalf »

FredPret wrote: post #611
aikinai wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple is selling overpriced commodity hardware This hasn’t been true since the 90s. And the rest of your examples are similarly ignorant of the incredible pace of innovation coming from a lot of these companies. Google ads might not be changing the world, but their peripheral technology certainly is. AWS and Amazon’s core business as well.

Just one correction; targeted ads have enabled the existence of many small businesses. Want to launch a board game aimed at left-handed nerds in a specific city? Before, you’d need a big media campaign that would also reach many right-handed non-nerds, wasting a lot of money. Now, you just need a few thousand $’s worth of targeted ads.

Targeted ads are unethical and should be eliminated, the abuses are too obvious to enumerate. Prostitution and drugs have also enabled the existence of many small companies.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#725

Post by sbacic »

iso1210 wrote: post #707
sbacic wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the rewards just aren't there. Amazon is a company started by some guy in a garage and less than 30 years later it is one of the richest companies in the world. Something like that just isn't going to happen in Europe - you'd be crushed by high taxes and regulation long before you reached that level. Some Europeans will say that's actually a feature, not a bug. But look at what businesses are being started in…

How do "high taxes" crush a company? Do companies say "Right, I'm not going to make an extra billion this year because I'll be taxed at the EU average 20.7% tax rather than the US 21%"

> Do companies say "Right, I'm not going to make an extra billion this year because I'll be taxed at the EU average 20.7% tax rather than the US 21%"

No, but their owners might go: "Given the risk, the potential returns and the taxes that I'd need to pay on said returns I'm better off putting this money into real estate, finding a cushy low-stress job and enjoying life instead."

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#726

Post by refurb »

7steps2much wrote: post #661
refurb wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re clearly talking about technological work here.

So? Just because you are a tech worker doesn't have to mean you love your job. Lots of companies fill your day with so much bureaucracy and unrelated stuff to your actual tech work you might hate your job none the less. Or maybe you actually get to work on technology most/all of the time, doesn't mean you enjoy it. Sure, working in R&D is probably pretty awesome for most tech guys there, but what about the guy mainta…

Jesus Christ. Yeah, I said that’s a fine attitude to have.

My point is you can either give a shit about your job or not. If you don’t, don’t expect to do anything innovative or produce a lot of value. If you’re cool with that, so am I.

Just don’t complain in a few decades when you have to cut back social programs.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#727

Post by AstralStorm »

sokoloff wrote: post #683
throw0101a wrote: post #642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to that, statistically, Europe does worse than the US wealth inequality […] Do you have a source for the statistic that show this? Another comment mentioned Gini. Piketty uses the share of the top percentile (1%) or decile (10%): * https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/pikettys-inequal... * https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/03/pikettys-new-... The US isn't the worst in the world, but it is certa…

Both of those citations appear to be looking at income inequality measures rather than wealth inequality measures.

What is wealth but income accumulated over time?

(Or wealth stolen from others. Oops?)

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#728

Post by Fargren »

refurb wrote: post #234
onion2k wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should society optimize for how easy it is to start a business?

1. Because new companies create jobs. 2. People with jobs pay taxes. As do the companies themselves. 3. Taxes pay for social safety net?

You make it sound like having ease to start companies leads to a better social security net. Easier to start companies -> more companies -> more taxes -> safety net.

Sounds credible in theory, but the reality is that despite it being harder in the EU than the US to start a company, the safety net is much stronger in the EU. So there must be something wrong in that theory.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#729

Post by zepto »

dieortin wrote: post #460
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US creating top paying tech jobs for the working class and not taxing them to death so they can grow into a flourishing middles class is also helping people. >large part of the US economy that consists of hurting people Source? If you're talking about the defense sector then you should also know that the UK and France were several years in a row number 2 and 3 worldwide in arms sales, including to the Saudi regime.

The military industry does indeed have the objective of hurting people, and it’s an important part of the US economy.

> does indeed have the objective of hurting people

That simply isn’t true. Generals and civilian leaders set the objectives of the military, and typically their objectives are to minimize casualties on both sides of any military engagement.

The military does use force and does hurt people but that is not an objective.

Re: Europe is now a corporate also-ran. Can it recover its footing?

#730

Post by sokoloff »

AstralStorm wrote: post #727
sokoloff wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both of those citations appear to be looking at income inequality measures rather than wealth inequality measures.

What is wealth but income accumulated over time? (Or wealth stolen from others. Oops?)

Wealth is the integral of income minus expenses plus net unrealized gains over time. The latter two terms are pretty significant in the overall calculus, if you’ll pardon the (partial?) pun.
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