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America has a drinking problem

theatlantic.com

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Re: America has a drinking problem

#721

Post by dayvid »

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

When I was in Japan, I met a guy who was a manager of a Japanese supermarket branch in Hawai’i for some time.

He said in Japan, people are usually about the same. But in America, people are either really smart or really stupid.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#722

Post by Mindwipe »

throwaway0a5e wrote: post #692
op00to wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one has ever quit a job because they can’t survive on it. If you’re really working paycheck to paycheck and barely scraping by, you don’t have the luxury of quitting. You would be homeless very quickly.

It's a little more nuanced than that. Crappy "barely survive" paying jobs tend to have high turnover and that's a two way street. You lose your job being janitor at the airport for pissing hot and you might not even lose a day's wage because you could be sweeping floors at the hospital that night if you play your cards right. Jiffy Lube gives you crap jobs for the 3rd straight week and you're rolling your toolbox int…

Because the lag from starting new positions to getting paid is, for people without savings, extremely problematic, and the assumption you can obtain unskilled or low skilled employment rapidly is fairly optimistic in general, ignores potential travel issues, and is pretty city centric and much less plausible in rural areas.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#723

Post by haswell »

NateEag wrote: post #717
makeitdouble wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea about your walk of life, but people leaving low paying jobs doesn’t feel irrational or lazy, or bullshitty in general. Why shouldn’t they ?

"Walking out" of a job implies leaving the employer without warning in the middle of a workday, something many people in the US pride themselves on not doing (despite largely having the legal right to do so). It's related to strong senses of personal responsibility and pride in reliability and dependability, in my experience.

Let’s not split hairs about the manner in which some folks leave their jobs. “Walking out” can imply leaving without warning, or might better represent the worker’s state of mind when they make the decision to give notice.

The underlying problem is that wages are so low in some places that it’s not possible to survive without:

- multiple incomes in the household

- multiple jobs

- going into debt

- living in a dangerous place

Etc.

These conditions leave the person without much choice but to leave.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#724

Post by notyourday »

gambiting wrote: post #708
hallway_monitor wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society.

It does not - one simply needs to look at USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, GDR or any other countries that followed that model.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#725

Post by stephencanon »

Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #648
gideon13 wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting conflation of "patriotic" and "conservative" with "backwards".

My comment is not about giving the most nuanced picture of the US, but about the caricatures that seem to exist within, sometimes in stark contrast to one another. "USA USA USA" chants, american flag on the lawn, big pickup trucks, the possession of firearms, monster trucks, american football, people who attend WWE events, "Trump voters" and MAGA hats (let's throw it in there, because it's tied into that), there's a…

I would say that "nationalist" is the more accurate term for this behavior. There's nothing patriotic about it.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#726

Post by wink »

tcpekin wrote: post #696
6foot4_82iq wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia, all alcohol (yes, even beer and wine) can only be bought at designated liquor stores. The vast majority of which are only open 10AM~10PM, with a handful in Sydney and Melbourne open after midnight. Further, public drinking is all but restricted to destitutes outside of NYE and Aus day. Contrast that with Germany. Every two blocks there's a Späti, many open 20–24h daily, each selling beer, wine, and spir…

I'm not sure that is Germany as a whole though, Berlin yes, but in Munich there are not nearly as many spatis, and from the people that I've interacted with, in smaller towns the only place to get a beer in the evening/night is the gas station.

True. Also in Baden-Württemberg they banned selling alcohol at gas stations at certain times (iirc) and here in Bavaria there were some temporary bans (I think due to covid). But all this is /mostly/ because our (in Bavaria) shops aren't allowed to be open 24/7, it has nothing to do with alcohol per se.

And yes, in general I 100% agree with the local policy that beer is free to buy and consume from age 16. The majority of people (I know) start drinking responsibly by age 20-25 and from the stories I heard from other countries there are quite a few less hospital visits involved.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#727

Post by gambiting »

notyourday wrote: post #724
gambiting wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

> For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. It does not - one simply needs to look at USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, GDR or any other countries that followed that model.

I think we might be misunderstanding which "the model" we're talking about. I'm not talking about communism - I come from a former communist country, I know it doesn't work! - I'm talking about modern country with a functional and very comprehensive benefits system with healthcare and education provided to any willing citizen. That's not communism - just capitalism with a comprehensive social support system.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#728

Post by notyourday »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #702
tolbish wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Policymakers don't really have to deal with the realities of what you mention. Like the bad education, for instance. That isn't really "your problem". The externalities of an awful public education system are borne by the unfortunates. Not you, who did things right, and not the people like you, who it is important you identify with. And so you're not going to give that issue anything more than lip service. ^ also wri…

The fundamental moral basis of the US is that some people are born better than others. If you have money, you're one of the chosen ones. The more money the better, without end. The losers who don't have money are not your problem. If they were as superior as you are they'd sort themselves out and have money too. But they don't, and of course that just proves how inferior they are. It's absolutely an 18th century aris…

If it were the case, we would not have had 1st post illegal immigrant generation do better than those whose parents were born in the United States.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#729

Post by hallway_monitor »

gambiting wrote: post #708
hallway_monitor wrote: post #705

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom creates inequality. The freedom to excel comes with the freedom to do poorly at the game. Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. We do give away a lot of welfare to people who are doing poorly. It might be more effective to stop giving people money and use it instead to create programs to provide better jobs and skill training.

>>Why should everyone be in the same position? They didn't put in the same effort. For a simple reason - because we know, empirically, through decades of studies(some of which were done by the very US of A!), that it produces better results for the entire society. I've learnt long ago that it doesn't matter how I feel about benefits system personally - yeah I hate that some people get money for doing nothing. But it'…

I was pretty poor. My mom worked part-time and call centers and did medical studies to earn extra money while my dad worked full-time. I made some bad choices, but then got a 2-year degree at a community college and yes, I did use some grants which I'm very thankful for.

Not to be pedantic but there's really no such thing as free is there? Someone is paying for that college. Personally I don't want to subsidize these quote unquote elite universities but if people choose to use their money to go there that's great.

To your final point, no that is emphatically not what freedom is. I once heard that freedom is the ability to choose wrongly but at the core it's really freedom to choose. If everything is the same then there's really no choice.

Re: America has a drinking problem

#730

Post by NateEag »

dayvid wrote: post #721
Wxc2jjJmST9XWWL wrote: post #636

Whenever I explain the "USA" to (Eastern) Europeans, I always simply state the notion: "diverse country of the extremes". Yes, widespread obesity, but health obsessions also run deep in that country, gym memberships, elite universities with sports programs full of money. How many weird diet fads start basically in the US? Self-help books, alternative gurus, etc. Bad education? Yes, pretty much. But also some of the b…

When I was in Japan, I met a guy who was a manager of a Japanese supermarket branch in Hawai’i for some time. He said in Japan, people are usually about the same. But in America, people are either really smart or really stupid.

It's hard to generalize correctly about a population of three hundred million.

That's especially true when doing it based on personal experience.

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