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What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

houstonchronicle.com

721–730 of 1001 posts

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#721

The blame doesn’t lie on the power grid but on the power sources. Texas has only four nuclear reactors, it should have many more as only nuclear is able to deliver power under virtually all weather conditions (yes, I know that South Texas 1 tripped but that was due to a false alarm). It’s because of renewables and gas power plants that electricity became scarse. Many wind turbines in particular froze because of the l…

Renewables had nothing to do with this and performed better than expected. A nuke plant tripped off and natural gas production and de-watering froze starving the plants. The vast majority of capacity loss was nat gas.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keep in mind: the details of how generators shed load is not ERCOT's decree. If there is unfairness in how liad shedding is taking place, you need to look at the entities generating/transmitting it. Not ERCOT. Bluebonnet has done a great, if annoying job. They converged to a near 50/50 duty cycle I think between two trunk lines. I've heard Austin Energy is epically failing some of it's customers though.

The people getting dangerously cold in their own homes don't care about the nuances between ERCOT and Austin Energy and their city government and county and state and federal governments and this private organization and that. The system as a whole has failed. In tragic fashion . Period. Modularize your organizations if you want to, but it is not an excuse for passing the buck. There are people at the top of the whol…

>The people getting dangerously cold in their own homes don't care about the nuances between ERCOT and Austin Energy and their city government and county and state and federal governments and this private organization and that. The system as a whole has failed. In tragic fashion.

Mayhaps if they did, they'd have seen warning signs that such an eventuality was inevitable in coming as they'd have a firm grasp of who was responsible for what, and had their hope of someone getting it just right wiped from their minds and replaced by the grim fact that the best tool they could employ to their own survival is that matter within their own head.

>Modularize your organizations if you want to, but it is not an excuse for passing the buck.

Part of Modularization is clearly defining and delineating roles and responsibilities. ERCOT's is to be the tracker and issuer of EEA's. That means having the authority to instigate, not implement, instigate, rolling blackouts. Make it happen; not how, just that it needed to. It isn't ERCOT's business other than to keep everybody dancing to the sane tune, and to keep track of the numbers.

Each provider went and did that; Some to great success. Even mine. I, in fact had to make some extra clever use of those times I had power to put it to the best use to stabilize the situation in our household.

>There are people at the top of the whole pile.

Funny thing about being on top of a pile, you're just as clueless as to what's actually on the bottom unless you actively go look into it, which is a calculated tradeoff that may distract you from doing something only you can see to do from where you are.

>And they have the authority and the responsibility to make sure the whole thing works, at the end of the day, no matter the implementation details

Oh, you sweet summer child. You think it's just a case of hup, two, three, four, and there you go, ERCOT makes your problem go away?

ERCOT owns nothing. It's a platform. A glorified clearinghouse. A market in which a bunch of private entities sell their wares, in this case, generation of power, usage of transmission infrastructure, etc.

There's no authority to magically make it all work. There's process, a whole lotta tooling, hopefully a pretty good chunk of people smart enough to use it well and sensibly, and a common agreement as to who has final say. In ERCOT's case, that jurisdiction and authority is well defined, and limited in scope.

>This is what the American system is chronically worst at. We delegate, and we contract out, and we federalize, and we divide responsibilities, and when put under pressure those pieces tend to fall apart.

Welcome to the real world. Where people like me, and now you too have come to the epiphany that there's some level of "inevitable failure" at play because companies act like bored people more than happy to pass the buck, and are fundamentally flawed, collective creations, of implicitly flawed beings. Mistakes will always happen, as will miscommunication. We contract out in good faith, it isn't always recipricated perfectly. We delegate, and we have to accept what we get back even if it only sorta marginally resembles what it was we asked for. We federalize, generally to make some common thing formally a common thing, but we also open ourselves to abuse by doing so.

There is a solution though. That's for people to get dead serious about doing damn good business. Something which can't happen in an environment of natural monopolies or industrial monoliths, a concept enshrined in the architecture of the Texas Grid, and enshrined in American system as a whole, though you have to rip off a few decades here and there of astonishingly bad ideas that are best characterized as cranial rectal insertions to see it.

Competition -> innovation -> newfound possibilities propagate through the competitive environment -> repeat

The last thing anyone needs is more conglomeration, if anything we need more people cranking on the same problems, cross checking everyone else to figure out if anything has been missed, and to ensure there is enough overall fault tolerance in the system.

Texas is, and will remain, what it is. We rebuild, but better. We try, and make it work as best we can. You may not like it, but a not inconsequent number of them do.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#723
post #690
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people have natural gas heat. It doesn't work when the power is out That doesn’t have to be the case. I have gas heat [0], that works fine when our power is out. (Not intending to detract from the rest of your point) [0] a basic Williams wall furnace on a 50 year old thermostat.

How does it blow heat around the house?

It’s a wall furnace in the center of the apartment, I guess it blows via convection, outward on both sides of the wall.

These heaters are super common in California, and some larger homes have multiple of them. I assume they’re not as efficient as more modern solutions, but they are certainly reliable and low-maintenance.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#724
post #117

What went wrong is that the Texas legislature which owns Texas-specific grid process to avoid interference from the Feds didn't figure out how to also ensure Texas generator companies got compensated for weatherizing (and ensuring it was done). How many of the 24+6 recommendations from the NERC/FERC review of last time this happened in Texas (hint:2011) were taken up by the legislature or those at ERCOT they delegate…

Would customers be willing to pay 20% more for electric power to prevent a once a decade event?

Dumping a political talking point like '20% more' without anything analytic to support it is just trash posting.

Interconnect with neighbour grids does not cost 20% more, AC or DC. In fact the huge peaking capability of a state with ~50% gas generation would generate revenue supplying peak demand and variations in renewable supply.

Pricing systems (i.e. market rules) that encourage reliability doesn't automatically lead to gold plating.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#725
post #692
post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 1996 (or thereabouts), I lived in Maryland, and my family lost power for 6 days due to a snow/ice storm that took out a ton of power lines (water froze on them and the added weight pulled them down). We had no natural gas service, and our running water was provided by a well in the backyard that had an electric pump. So no electricity, heat, or running water for 6 days in ~20-30°F weather. (Fortunately we'd prepar…

Is there no CO2 danger from sleeping with gas stove on? Don’t people die from carbon monoxide poisoning from sleeping with open flames?

carbon monoxide is CO, not CO2.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#726
post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Man, what are people with children, elderly, or pets doing.

My pets are cold and miserable like us but I don't think they're in any danger of injury. They have thick coats and blankets which go pretty far inside.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#727
post #134
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe having more nuclear power plants instead of wind would have helped? No. Most of the missing production was not wind, and several nukes went out (unclear whether that was because the grid was dying though). What would have helped was proper standards (avoiding emergency being much of the reason why Texas still has its own grid) and properly winterising. The wind thing is just a bullshit excuse, the vast majori…

At the worst wind only provided 0.7GW on 30GW installed, with capacity they count on during winter peaking events for wind of 6.2GW it only 11%.

That’s a cherrypicked low point, which is unsurprising given wind is not a permanent energy source. 30GW nameplate capacity is nowhere near the production you’d expect of wind (hell even nukes are not expected to come close to 100%).

Texas’ electric mix is 75% thermal, and that’s what shat the bed, at peak 34GWe of thermal was offline. Even if wind actually accounted for 6GW missing dieting the entire event it would have accounted for a small minority of the missing production.

And more specifically Texas gas is 66% of expected winter capacity. That’s also where most of the outages are.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#728
post #690
post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A lot of people have natural gas heat. It doesn't work when the power is out That doesn’t have to be the case. I have gas heat [0], that works fine when our power is out. (Not intending to detract from the rest of your point) [0] a basic Williams wall furnace on a 50 year old thermostat.

How does it blow heat around the house?

Not very well, I lived in an apartment with one of those in the hallway, had to set up a fan to blow warm air to the living room or bedrooms or it got way too cold on cold nights. (which fortunately, were rare where I lived). It'd definitely be better than nothing in an extended power failure, but forced air heat is more comfortable

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#729
post #474
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have sewer service, you'll usually have a septic tank instead. It's basically a mini waste treatment plant in your backyard, eventually the water will flow into the ground. Modern systems have pumps and such that depend on electricity to function.

I’ve never heard of a below ground septic system that required pumps. The only pumps for drainage are for sub level bathrooms such as in basements. There is a significant overlap of septic installations and wells and most modern wells run on electric. But if you’re toilet’s basin is full, it doesn’t need any power to flush and drain. It just won’t fill again.

> But if you’re toilet’s basin is full, it doesn’t need any power to flush and drain. It just won’t fill again.

typically there is enough pressure in the tank to allow a flush or two. you don't operate the well pump every time there is demand.

Re: What went wrong with the Texas power grid?

#730
post #20

Dallas suburb here (Las Colinas). No power since Monday 6am. I had to get room at holiday inn. I actually got the room yesterday, but the hotel lost power after an hour, so I had to go back home and sleep in 5 degree apartment. Don't believe anything you read about "rolling outages". It's only rolling, if you define that as "out until it's not freezing anymore".

Man, what are people with children, elderly, or pets doing.

The most ugrent concern is probably for homeless people.
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