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Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

cnbc.com

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Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#721

Post by AnthonyMouse »

smilbandit wrote: post #618
rubidium wrote: post #491

There's been similar moves in the past. Most famous of which is Ford's $5 / day. http://www.saturdayeveningpost.com/2014/01/03/blogs/post-per... Ford's quote from the time is relevant today: “The owner, the employees, and the buying public are all one and the same, and unless an industry can so manage itself as to keep wages high and prices low it destroys itself, for otherwise it limits the number of its customers.…

and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again.

> and thus grew the middle class. The middle class is something we truly need to focus on growing again.

But that's the problem with things like this. We keep focusing on the top and the bottom but not the middle.

So we pass laws purporting to tax the rich (but really anyone with a full time job) and then the rich hire accountants and only the middle class pays. Then we clamor for a higher minimum wage, but the middle class already makes more than minimum wage, so the effect on them is to raise the prices they have to pay.

What we need isn't just to get the people at $10 to $15, it's to get the people at $20 to $35 or $50.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#722

Post by stale2002 »

hannasanarion wrote: post #611
philwelch wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The more you pay your people, the more they can spend on your stuff. This is the economics equivalent of a perpetual motion machine.

Isn't that what an economy is? Are you telling me that if your employer stopped paying you, you would keep spending the same as you do now?

No, that's not what the economy is.

Here is how it works. Let's say Amazon doubles someone's salary, from 30k a year to 60k a year.

And let's say that previously, this person was spending 1k a year on Amazon.

Since the worker now has double the salary, let's say it doubled the amount that they spend at Amazon, from 1k to 2k.

Doing simple math here, you see that Amazon is now spending 30k more, only to get an extra 1k in revenue, for a total decrease of 29k.

Arguing that this person will spend all 30k of this additional money at Amazon is ridiculous.

And even more ridiculous would be arguing that this perpetual motion machine actually creates value, above and beyond 30K.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#723

Post by slivym »

propman wrote: post #715

Let’s say $11 was the previous avg wage for let’s say 300k employees (250k full and 100k part time avg). $4 increase is $8000 more a year. That’s $2.4B yearly transfer to workers which is honestly really really amazing, props to Bezos. $8000 means 15.3% in payroll taxes so this wage increase will result in $367.2M in additional payroll taxes. 12% federal income tax as well for that $8000 is $288M per year. So amazon…

>Who says Amazon doesn’t pay taxes?

Can we do away with this now please. Amazon paying the taxes it can't avoid doesn't act as an excuse for avoiding the taxes that they do avoid. In fact, excusing Amazon's tax avoidance with the income tax it's employees pay is even worse. It's still a problem. We still need to tackle it, and if this pay rise acts to dissuade people from real tax reform and real workers rights then forget the 2.4B this move is probably profitable for Amazon.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#724

Post by bhupy »

rifung wrote: post #701
bhupy wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the end of the day, we as a society rightly demand a minimum standard of living for everyone, and we collectively pay for that in one way or the other. Either we pay taxes to fund a welfare state, or we pay inflated prices for goods and services to maintain wage floors. The argument I'm making here is paying taxes for welfare is more progressive, as the burden falls on richer people. Paying inflated prices for goo…

That is an interesting perspective that I admittedly did not think of. However why do the prices have to be inflated? Can't the company just accept lower profits? That would be progressive since most of the profits currently go to the rich at least for public companies no?

It would actually be a good thing for the prices to be inflated because that would mean that the market is competitive. In a competitive market, profit margins are typically very thin, so unless the increase in labor cost is passed onto the customer, the business will have to operate at a loss.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#725

Post by [deleted] »

s73v3r_ wrote: post #551
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a ridiculous risk to take given it is reliant on the US government that is unequivocally pro-business right now and will be until at least 2020.

The government says they're pro business, but Trump himself is quite anti-Amazon (well, at least anti-Bezos, which extends itself to being somewhat anti-Amazon).

[deleted]

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#726

Post by outside1234 »

propman wrote: post #715

Let’s say $11 was the previous avg wage for let’s say 300k employees (250k full and 100k part time avg). $4 increase is $8000 more a year. That’s $2.4B yearly transfer to workers which is honestly really really amazing, props to Bezos. $8000 means 15.3% in payroll taxes so this wage increase will result in $367.2M in additional payroll taxes. 12% federal income tax as well for that $8000 is $288M per year. So amazon…

Your math works out if they don't layoff a ton of people through automation. Let's see what happens.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#727

Post by outside1234 »

maym86 wrote: post #620

Jeff Bezos in the announcement. “We’re excited about this change and encourage our competitors and other large employers to join us" Is this an attempt to pressure its competition with less money in the bank to do the same, loby for a higher minimum wage and drive them out of business? Maybe it's a reaction to the union organizing taking place a whole foods and they think this will be cheaper in the long run. I don't…

He is going to lay off all of the employees through automation. You can have $150 an hour for warehouse employees as a minimum wage if there is only one of them.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#728

Post by ntsplnkv2 »

mc32 wrote: post #520
ntsplnkv2 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a ridiculous risk to take given it is reliant on the US government that is unequivocally pro-business right now and will be until at least 2020.

Not so sure about that. Many businesses are upset at the import tariffs complaining it will affect them. We also have many labor unions cautiously optimistic about support ftom the current admin. Let’s also not forget that while Repubs have traditionally been pro business, Dems, since the 80s have also got cozy with business and get humongous donations from corps —something which was not the case pre 1980s.

That's true, but with regards to the minimum wage, which is the topic we are on, republicans are typically against raising it.

> Let’s also not forget that while Repubs have traditionally been pro business, Dems, since the 80s have also got cozy with business and get humongous donations from corps —something which was not the case pre 1980s.

I don't intend to engage on "x is better than y." or whataboutism comparing political parties. It is simply a valid observation that republicans are more likely to be against raising the minimum wage, so it would follow that if Amazon is only doing this in the hopes that the government will raise it anyway and other companies would have to pay more, it would be an absurd risk to take.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#729

Post by untog »

propman wrote: post #715

Let’s say $11 was the previous avg wage for let’s say 300k employees (250k full and 100k part time avg). $4 increase is $8000 more a year. That’s $2.4B yearly transfer to workers which is honestly really really amazing, props to Bezos. $8000 means 15.3% in payroll taxes so this wage increase will result in $367.2M in additional payroll taxes. 12% federal income tax as well for that $8000 is $288M per year. So amazon…

> Who says Amazon doesn’t pay taxes?

A lot of people!

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/aug/10/amazon-uk...

https://itep.org/amazon-inc-paid-zero-in-federal-taxes-in-20...

Amazon deserves credit for raising pay before it needed to, but to sell this as a justification for their tax avoidance everywhere else is absurd.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#730

Post by B-Con »

propman wrote: post #687

Amazon says no more RSUs in exchange for $15 min wage, can anyone say how much the RSUs were for those employees? I’m curious as to what the difference is?

Where did you see that?

I doubt hourly warehouse workers are getting RSUs to begin with, that tends to be for salaried positions only.

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