“Let her speak please” • Hacker News Board

Re: “Let her speak please”

#721

Post by Goladus » Wed, Jun 14, 2017, 6:32 PM UTC

ryanmarsh wrote: post #589

camelite wrote: post #550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your links do not justify your confident tone. Two are about the 7 Supreme Court Justices and some Google guy. That's 8 people. The first is about a study involving 11 male-female interactions (19 now), and a study which noted that "...The men interrupted their female conversational partners 2.1 times during a three minute conversation. That number dropped to 1.8 when they spoke to other men." So men just interrupt m…

> So men just interrupt more in general, not against women specifically I'll buy that. If this disproportionately affects women then I'll buy that too. I don't buy that men interrupt women specifically out of some sort of bias. My experience has been that the more passionate conversationalists among us will interrupt anyone who will let them.

The more interesting question is whether there's a 3rd variable we're missing.

You were right in your initial assertion: people talk over people. The people desperately trying to prove that "men talk over women" using statistical analysis are all missing the point.

The first thing to do, before looking for sex differences, is to try and identify the reasons why people interrupt, because there are many of them and sometimes there are conflicting or related motives.

Gathering anecdotal evidence would be a starting point for articulating hypotheses. What are the conditions of the discussion? What is at stake? What is the expertise of the participants? What are the personality factors? What is the general conversational ability of each participant? How long is the attention span of each participant? What is the apparent purpose of each individual interruption?

There are so many factors you could look for before looking at sex differences. And would the sex differences persist when those factors were controlled for?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#722

Post by Chris2048 » Thu, Jun 15, 2017, 4:42 PM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #720

Chris2048 wrote: post #716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strawman. It's your opinion that sarcasm has been "effective and appropriate" in communication. In domains of importance, like law, is is notably absent. > I was not aware.. Not the case, just more sarcasm from you. Those who argue unproductively are silenced in some ways, btw, in the form of mod restrictions and bans. Most of us are able to communicate more effectively and agreeably without sarcasm, and care to do s…

Per the guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , there is no such rule that "sarcasm is not allowed" on Hacker News. And yes, if someone suggests that sexism is essentially in someones mind in a real life conversation, sarcasm would certainly be appropriate in response to a statement so thoughtless. > In domains of importance, like law, is is notably absent. That's not particularly relevant...…

> there is no such rule that "sarcasm is not allowed" on Hacker News

Has anyone claimed this? You are beating a strawman.

> if someone suggests that sexism is essentially in someones mind in a real life conversation, sarcasm would certainly be appropriate in response to a statement so thoughtless.

I disagree, it's your opinion that a comment is without merit, and you are constructively responding to it rather than engaging - this is not mere "sarcasm", it's sarcasm employed as a punishment for comments you dislike.

HN does discourage these kinds responses, whether implemented using sarcasm or otherwise, for being argumentative and unconstructive:

> if someone suggests that sexism is essentially in someones mind

If this is obviously incorrect, it should be easy to state why, rather than resorting to insults. The rules state "Be civil", there is no stated exception "unless you are replying to a post that is itself civil, or otherwise offends you". The rule "reply to the argument instead of calling names" is in the same spirit.

> continue to lecture and "correct" me on something

Your original post was not civil, something that is in the guidelines (and of which sarcasm is a form).

Why do I continue to "lecture" you? Because this reply continues to be uncivil, down-votes or no - plus you are apparently unrepentant (or at least unapologetic), and your thoughts on the matter imply you will continue to do so.

> I don't actually need your guidance on why my comment got -4 points

I don't know how many point it did, or will, have; nor take it into account. I don't believe it was grayed at the time I responded.

> That's not particularly relevant...

full context:

>> Sarcasm is an effective and appropriate communication tool

> In domains of importance, like law, is is notably absent

meaning, it means on what you are trying to achieve - if you are trying to effectively and unambiguously communicate, it is not effective.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#723

Post by zzzeek » Thu, Jun 22, 2017, 2:15 AM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #722

zzzeek wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per the guidelines at https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html , there is no such rule that "sarcasm is not allowed" on Hacker News. And yes, if someone suggests that sexism is essentially in someones mind in a real life conversation, sarcasm would certainly be appropriate in response to a statement so thoughtless. > In domains of importance, like law, is is notably absent. That's not particularly relevant...…

> there is no such rule that "sarcasm is not allowed" on Hacker News Has anyone claimed this? You are beating a strawman. > if someone suggests that sexism is essentially in someones mind in a real life conversation, sarcasm would certainly be appropriate in response to a statement so thoughtless. I disagree, it's your opinion that a comment is without merit, and you are constructively responding to it rather than en…

> > there is no such rule that "sarcasm is not allowed" on Hacker News

> Has anyone claimed this? You are beating a strawman.

you did:

> Your original post was not civil, something that is in the guidelines (and of which sarcasm is a form).

> Why do I continue to "lecture" you? Because this reply continues to be uncivil, down-votes or no - plus you are apparently unrepentant (or at least unapologetic), and your thoughts on the matter imply you will continue to do so.

so you are trying to harass me into "repentance"? is this something you think is appropriate on hacker news ?