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They Used To Last 50 Years

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Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#721

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid your corollary won't apply; the lowest wages will just move elsewhere. There already was a company in China that moved production to the US because of wages there (plus transport costs, etc). I could see countries in Africa become the next manufacturing powerhouse(s), direct access to major seaways to both the US, Europe and Asia, etc. I don't know if they have the natural resources though, or the politica…

This exploitation of cheap foreign labor is a big reason why rural America is doing so poorly. Corporations used to go to rural America for cheap labor, but because of our environmental and labor laws as well as our higher standard of living, it's not viable. I honestly don't see how this trend can continue without destabilizing our country.

It makes me wonder if the people at the top could handle expecting less, could trends reverse themselves and more people benefit, or if it's beyond them with too many other factors to consider. Does it really all come down to "We have to grow every quarter or die"?

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm afraid your corollary won't apply; the lowest wages will just move elsewhere. There already was a company in China that moved production to the US because of wages there (plus transport costs, etc). I could see countries in Africa become the next manufacturing powerhouse(s), direct access to major seaways to both the US, Europe and Asia, etc. I don't know if they have the natural resources though, or the politica…

This exploitation of cheap foreign labor is a big reason why rural America is doing so poorly. Corporations used to go to rural America for cheap labor, but because of our environmental and labor laws as well as our higher standard of living, it's not viable. I honestly don't see how this trend can continue without destabilizing our country.

If you look at a typical smartphone, the retail/supply chain labor costs in the US are at least twice the production and logistical costs in the country of origin.

Apple could easily increase the wages of all their Chinese staff to $10/hour and they would still be making 30-40% margins on every phone.

I suspect the real drivers environmental, China is willing to pour megatons of waste into their wilderness in a way that we would never consider here in the US.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#723
post #375
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you want one of the best displays on a TV, it comes "bundled in" with "smart" features. " Not true. If you buy a commercial display (you know, those panels you see in airports) not only will it be a far higher quality display than any consumer model, but it will also be the dumbest display you can imagine. They're not that much more expensive - which makes sense, since end users are sometimes building video walls…

Will they really be higher quality displays for viewing television, movies, and video games? I would expect commercial displays to perhaps be brighter, but I would be surprised if they focused on things that matter more for home viewing, like color accuracy, refresh rate, and contrast ratio.

Some commercial displays are tuned for bright, static, signage, which would naturally make poor video displays. However, I suspect that their actual display technology is usually identical to the consumer versions. Certainly the panels themselves come from the same factory.

But for what it is worth, my NEC commercial display doesn't look as good as a 4K display, naturally. It isn't a great monitor for text. I can't imagine how you could make 1080p at 55" look great at only arm's length away, though. That's just too much real estate to fill with too few dots.

But it's more than sufficient, and I greatly enjoy gaming and the occasional movie on it. It looks much better than the 42" off-brand it replaced, but not as good as the 32" Samsung in the other room. I'd buy again and recommend them. I'm certainly a big fan of them having a simple remote and a serial port with a well-documented control protocol.

The biggest problem with NEC and commercial displays in general is that you aren't really going to be able to do any pre-sales checks. They're not going to have an NEC hanging on the wall at Best Buy to compare. So all you have to go on is people like me who took the chance and offer up terribly unprofessional reviews, that might be pretty deeply contaminated with self-justification.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#724

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm rather afraid of Tesla and their batteries - you know batteries, whether intentional or not, only last for about 1000 charge cycles, or in the case of Tesla for about 7-10 years, before they have to be replaced - which won't be cheap. This will be an Issue that will be highlighted very soon. We'll see a huge devaluation in secondhand Tesla cars, since replacing the battery will be more expensive than…

I'd like to know more about this too, and how Tesla and other companies plan to address it. I'm particularly concerned about the potential environmental impact of dumping a bunch of batteries into landfills. Is there a battery reburishment/recycling program for these vehicles?

Tesla's battery recycling program sounds pretty impressive, and the cost of new batteries is lower every year. https://www.tesla.com/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycl...

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#725
post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mean Time Between Failures

That's an interesting contrast. I mean, you're correct, but why is the acronym "between" instead of "before"? As the article describes, when replacing a part costs a comparable amount to the price of a brand-new appliance, people buy new appliances. With this mindset, the correct term is no longer "between" failures - when you might replace a part and average the described time until the next failure - but "before" f…

The other one is Mean Time To Failure.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this true? I bought a (new) washer I never understood front-load anyways. Topload fails safe. Front load fails in a giant puddle all over your floor.

In Europe you will find nowhere toploader. We know they are poor engineering: Bad water and electricity efficiency combined with more stress and wear out for the fabrics during washing. Only plus side I can see is that it is faster... but wasting so much resources does not justifies it IMHO.

> Only plus side I can see is that it is faster...

I enjoy being able to wash my blankets. When I had a front loader, it was impossible to get anything large clean, especially with how many fabrics here in America at least are all synthetic so water beads off rather than being adsorbed. The only way to clean cheap linen here is to completely immerse it in water.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#727
For appliances, my wife and I have started to purchase commercial products. Right now, all we have is a microwave, but we were tired of constantly having to purchase a new microwave every 5 years or so, as things broke on it. Our previous microwave, for instance, still worked ok (ie - it heated up food ok), but the turntable lazy-suzan thing had paint problems: the rollers of the lazy-suzan, where it fit in the track, chipped and "grinded" the paint, so there were paint particles and fragments under the glass surface. We'd wipe it out, but more would occur. Eventually, it wore a "rut" (no more paint chip issues), but then it started rusting from food moisture.

So we dumped a bunch of money (close to $300.00) into a commercial microwave. One knob, 6 minutes max, high power only. Honestly, it works perfectly, easy wipe-out interior surface, no turntable, but heats evenly without turning the food. The only downside with it (as with all commercial kitchen appliances) is that it is stainless steel only (we have a "white appliance" kitchen.

Our next purchase will likely be a commercial refrigerator, and a replacement freezer. We're going with only a refrigerator in our kitchen, and replacing a small chest freezer in our garage with an upright. It's going to cost a helluva penny to do this, but considering how much a new consumer side-by-side costs anyhow, it should be worth it in the long run. The only downsides we have found (so far) are that a) commercial refrigeration units are much taller than consumer units, and we're having problems finding one that will fit into our current space, b) commercial units, if used in a home, usually will void the warranty, c) commercial units need commercial repair service, which is much more expensive in parts/labor when it does happen.

But we thought we'd give it a shot. Our current side-by-side works ok (mainly - water dispenser and ice maker don't work anymore), and it has worked well for 15 years now (and was bought used when we got it). Part of me wonders, after reading this story, if it might be better to have it repaired instead. We've already seen prices for new units, and they are crazy expensive for what you get. Plus, most of them don't fit in our current space; they seem to be made for new houses, which have taller ceilings, and no overhead cabinet above the fridge area - unlike our 1970s ranch-style home (Why do we live in such an older home? For starter's, we live below our means, because it provides a bit of insurance against uncertain problems. We also wanted a house without an HOA - new houses where we live, without HOAs, tend to be custom construction, if you are lucky, and that was beyond our means at the time for our first house. Lastly, we wanted block construction, copper piping and electric, and better construction - houses today are built so damn cheaply).

Hopefully whatever we decide will work out in the end. But so far, we wouldn't change our decision on our microwave (ours is basically the same one used in much of restaurant service - Sharp and Amana make the majority of these).

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is hard to do, and it is harder for these folks to understand that paying for quality is cheaper than going for the lowest price. A $500 washing machine that lasts 50 years "costs" $10/year (after 50 years you'll have to replace it with another one). A $300 Washing Machine that lasts 10 years costs $30/year. Or conversely a $300 machine that lasts 10 years will be re-bought 5 times over a 50 year period ($1,500),…

You have to have a savings in order to amortize. Most people might have a few-hundred dollars that they need to feed a family and drive to work on until their next paycheck. This is the demographic that will pay $300 every ten years instead of $500 every 50, because they would have to choose not to eat for two weeks.

I agree with you that is the choice they would make, but stand by my point that it hurts them rather than helps. I think you would find the book "Scarcity: Why having to little means so much" by Sendhil Mullainathan an interesting read.

What I got out of that book was that this behavior is built in at a much deeper level of our brains than you might expect and to counter it, and to get out of its grip, requires thoughtful action. In my case I find myself falling into these patterns with respect to spending time poorly when I don't have enough of it.

[1] http://scholar.harvard.edu/sendhil/scarcity

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#729

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had many cars with electric windows. They all eventually failed, usually when it was raining, and the windows could not be raised. Fixing them would cost over $500. My truck now has hand cranked windows, and mechanical door locks. They're no trouble at all, and I'm happy with them.

Cars are still in the old mindset. They're unmodular, un-lego. Kinda like average laptops before 2006 or so. Tons of intricate parts stuck together. Coming from the computer world, especially now that you can plug and swap all kinds of parts, this looks insane. And the carmakers are leveraging this to take a premium on anything if you don't dare to try fixing it yourself.

"Lego" cars used to be really common. Old Hondas were exactly like this, which is why they had such a cult following in the 90s. You could build up a Honda using parts from pretty much any other Honda.

This also contributed to their popularity among thieves.

Re: They Used To Last 50 Years

#730

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I'm rather afraid of Tesla and their batteries - you know batteries, whether intentional or not, only last for about 1000 charge cycles, or in the case of Tesla for about 7-10 years, before they have to be replaced - which won't be cheap. This will be an Issue that will be highlighted very soon. We'll see a huge devaluation in secondhand Tesla cars, since replacing the battery will be more expensive than…

I'd like to know more about this too, and how Tesla and other companies plan to address it. I'm particularly concerned about the potential environmental impact of dumping a bunch of batteries into landfills. Is there a battery reburishment/recycling program for these vehicles?

I think at the 1000 charge cycle point, the batteries degrade but are not useless. There is an idea that they can then be used as grid tied storage or in places where AH/Kg does not matter as much.
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