Donald Trump Is Elected President • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#721

Post by shamsalmon » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:10 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #695

jernfrost wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do what the democrats have talked about, which we have successfully done in Nordic countries which is to spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. I grew up in a rustbelt like industrial town in Norway. We has shipyards, glass factory, paper mill, textile industry, lock systems etc. Almost all of it got closed down and moved overseas as I grew up…

>> spend a lot of money on re-educating the workforce and making sure those at the bottom get decent skills. It is the height of snobbery to move the lesser skilled jobs out of the country and tell everyone they need to be smarter. There will always be a distribution of skills and it is not for the well educated to say "you just need to be like us". All the US needs to do is stop signing 900 page "free trade" agreeme…

What makes you think these jobs will ever come back in significant numbers? Even if the companies were forced to come back from overseas there would probably be a significantly smaller labor force because of automation. This problem is only going to get worse so it makes sense to go to a solution that is long term.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#722

Post by zanethomas » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:12 PM UTC

jphillipsio wrote: post #536

zanethomas wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you're incorrect in asserting that the election was about "disenfranchised blue collar workers". My daughter and her husband make about $200k per year and they voted for Trump. She's describes Trumps win as a great big middle finger to career politicians.

With that kind of income, I would venture to say that they're just republicans.

You say that as if you think that is prima facie a bad thing. It's that sort of categorization which has poisoned political discourse in this country.

I hope Trump's shock to both the major parties encourages them to reconsider the war for power they wage day and night. But I'm not going to hold my breath.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#723

Post by tcoppi » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

akiselev wrote: post #395

My entire family feels a terrible sadness today. We immigrated here to the United States from Russia almost 20 years ago (to the day) and after all the immigration bullshit we were finally eligible for citizenship this year. My dad took his oath and got his US passport literally weeks before the election and this is what he gets for his first vote: a divisive demagogue beat a corrupt career politician. There are no w…

I'm so sorry. Maybe you can use your unique perspective to shine a light on how backwards Trump's support of Putin and Putinesque policies is.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#724

Post by ohstopitu » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

VonGuard wrote: post #4

Can we setup a YCombinator in Europe? Canada? Somewhere other than the US?

I would totally support a YCombinator in Canada. (Obviously because I live in Canada)

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#725

Post by ilostmykeys » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

Found this and it gave articulation to my thoughts, with intentional misspellings by the author...

"amerikka and its capitalist empire is an illegitimate system and therefore i choose to not give it much of my energy but i do have some thoughts to offer.

Trump taking power is not a change, but an unveiling of what has always been: that this country is founded and held through the control and consciousness of rich psychotic white male rapists, exploiters and oppressors of Black and Brown indigenous bodies in the name of money, which they hoard for themselves. These patriarchs created white supremacy which simultaneously created amerikkka and its empire that runs and terrorizes the world. and at this point these politricks dont even have to be white men to enact/enforce this consciousness, because it has been institutionalized. you can be a womxn, a poc, it doesn't matter when you up in the white house because this blood money rules every thing around us. its so fitting for a capitalist rather than a 'politician' to become president because they all ride for each other. the anxiety and fear around the fascism and xenophobia that trump is pushing is real, but its no different than what Obama was doing, where pigs continue to murder Black and Brown men, womxn and children with no consequences, where we have seen more deportations than ever in history. or killary wih her fascist white feminism overseeing coups and murdering and dropping bombs on womxn of color all in the the name of democracy.

the difference now is that everything is all out in the open. the fascism isnt being disguised by liberal rhetoric of 'democracy' and 'freedom' because there aint never been true justice in amerikkka. what should concern us is the violence and fascism Trump inspires in the ignorant racist white populations of this country. but that only means we need to get organized, we need to free ourselves of the idea that we need to be governed, that we need a president or politician to save us, we need to free ourselves from integration because this shit was not built for us, we need to ground and trust our magic, and cast spells and visions of liberation, because real democracy is self determination. and the struggle continues."

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#726

Post by bjourne » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:13 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

The unemployment rate in the US has shrunk from about 10% in 2009 to 4.9% in 2016. The homicide and violent crime rates has also continued to shrink from a peak in 1992. By any statistical measure you can think of, the US population is doing better today than in 2008.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#727

Post by DominikR » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:14 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #655

DominikR wrote: post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true, she didn't make a strong positive case for what her policies would look like. And if she did then she didn't spend her time effectively trying to convey this. (can't actually remember even a single policy of hers except for easier abortions and confrontation with Russia over Syria) But what I feel is problematic is that Trump was painted as some kind of Hitler, which is ludicrous if you spent a few hour…

He says things he shouldn't say, and some might say he's an a-hole I voted for Obama in previous elections. But I also remember how he'd said denigrating things about people who "cling to guns or religion." I suspect people voted for Trump because they thought he didn't put on one face for one public and put on another one for a different public. (Which I doubt is the reality.) Our media "elites" aren't elites anymor…

I fully agree, though I didn't know that Fox News compared Obama to Hitler (I'm in the EU so I don't watch US TV) - which is equally unacceptable.

But I'm a more of an optimist regarding the Internet and the availability of platforms to share information and express views.

While it is certainly true that some of the loudest voices are indeed the most hateful (Comments on HRC's and DJT's Twitter posts were unbelievable vicious) I also see that there is organically dissent organising on all kinds of issues which we didn't have to such a degree in the pre Internet era.

Of course dissenters also existed before the Internet, but it was much harder to reach an audience. And not all dissent is just hateful and stupid, a lot is legitimate.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#728

Post by james_pm » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:15 PM UTC

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #17

Now that the voices of the disenfranchised blue collar workers have been heard, what actually can be done to help them? I'm less worried about the accusations of racism, etc. because it appears to me a majority are voting because their livelihoods have been lost and, despite economics saying globalization will bring new jobs, they aren't showing up in the critical areas where they are needed. So, what policies can be…

I'm so happy to see this at the top of the comments. It gives me hope that more people recognize that a vote for Trump in many cases wasn't a vote for the man, but rather a vote for some amount of hope that someone, somewhere recognized that their towns and cities were hurting and that they saw some path forward out of their situation.

I don't know what the solutions are, but I have to believe that if we can talk about sending people to live on Mars and make cars that drive themselves, that we can come up with solutions to get jobs and economic prosperity to areas of the country that have been badly hurt over the last decade.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#729

Post by ianai » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:16 PM UTC

huac wrote: post #109

I have a lot of thoughts, but here's one: Hillary focused her entire campaign on why people should stop Trump, at the expense of talking about why she should be president. In general, making the case against someone else rather than the affirmative case for yourself doesn't work. It's reaction versus action. It's undoubtably true now that there was a very real populist anger towards the existing political order, and…

With how close it was it's disingenuous to look for reasons why she lost. People simply didn't think the entire rural population would vote enmasse and they underestimated the size of that voting block. Full stop.

Re: Donald Trump Is Elected President

#730

Post by yolesaber » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 7:18 PM UTC

antisthenes wrote: post #705

yolesaber wrote: post #43

I'd argue you are clueless. Trump has been sued several times for the discrimination against black people, he fired black people from his casinos and moved them to the back, he INSISTS TO THIS DAY that the Central Park Five are guilty despite DNA evidence, he jokes and also brags about literally molesting women. People like you disgust me. Stop acting like his words and actions don't matter.

Step back for a second and consider how many millions voted for him despite those remarks and issues. Perhaps if you are so disgusted by half of the citizens in your country, you should seriously consider emigrating somewhere else, if that's truly an issue for you. But I suspect, like most comments on the Internet, it's nothing more but empty posturing.

Actually, I'm not going anywhere because I'm staying in the US to fight for what I believe is right, just, and true - namely the sanctity of rights for all people, regardless of skin color, gender, religion, or sexual orientation. See you there.