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Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

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Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#711

Post by WhyNotHugo »

hirako2000 wrote: post #79
mcv wrote: post #43

Wero is basically an EU-wide version of the Dutch iDeal system, which in my opinion is the gold standard of how internet payment should work. I shouldn't have to fill in any card numbers on the site of the merchant (which is unsafe). Instead, the payment should redirect me to my bank, where I authorize the payment through my own bank's security system. I've always been annoyed by the need to type in sensitive card in…

In fact a unique payment ID (e.g QR) to "push" payment is even safer. No redirect. That's how payment should be. Not an authorization given to pull from us, but the agency for us to push the amount.

We already have a unique payment system though: SEPA QRC. They include the IBAN and some payment details.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#712

Post by reddalo »

epolanski wrote: post #316
reddalo wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And to send payments across friends there's instant bank wires That's nice (when it's free), but banking apps are clunky, unfriendly, heavy and slow. Unicredit and Intesa, two main Italian banks, both have apps that are atrocious to use and riddled with annoyances. People want an easy and quick way to send/receive money (Satispay does that almost well). And for some banks Wero seems like it's going to be available…

> That's nice (when it's free), but banking apps are clunky, unfriendly, heavy and slow. They are all fine for a simple wire transfer. I do have Intesa myself cause I've got mortgage through them and sending a wire transfer is both simple and fast. So is on our other accounts: BBVA (Italian), mBank (Polish), Credem (Italian), Mediobanca (IT) and XTB and Revolut (both PL and IT). I think you're really describing a 10…

I use both Unicredit and Intesa almost daily and they're both dreadful. And their "home banking" websites are even worse.

Useless notifications, pop-ups everywhere, they even stuff ads in between my account balance list. They don't follow iOS nor Android guidelines at all. They're slow and clunky.

Compare them to either Satispay or PayPal. They also have their own problems, but at least their apps are quick and easy to use. I've never used Revolut, but I'm pretty sure that's also super good.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#713

Post by CobaltFire »

SoftTalker wrote: post #656
volkl48 wrote: post #650

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Costco doesn't even accept Mastercard (credit cards), so they're kind of a unique case here where they intentionally choose to only accept one particular type of credit cards.

Guessing they have their own branded card that they push you to use?

Correct, and it used to be AMEX.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#714

Post by moralestapia »

kspacewalk2 wrote: post #334
moralestapia wrote: post #204

Canada chiming in, Interac rules above anything else.

Interac should join this scheme outright or at least become interoperable with it. I'd love to be able to pay for everything on my trips to Europe without using US credit card networks.

Oof, that would be phenomenal!

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#715

Post by dataflow »

xinayder wrote: post #690
dataflow wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The central bank controls what payments are permitted by what laws exist, not some risk management system that has decided that your legal purchase is too risky or some foreign state has applied sanctions against you. That sounds worse to be honest. You're essentially asking for the government to be not only aware of but also able to control all digital payments. That upends how money has worked over (literally) mi…

> That sounds worse to be honest. You're essentially asking for the government to be not only aware of but also able to control all digital payments. That upends how money has worked over (literally) millenia, and is an incredible risk to take. Giving someone in government the ability to block someone's payments and trusting they won't abuse it might be fine as long as good people remain in power, but do you really w…

> There are financial laws that banks must comply with and one of them require banks to share information with the Central Bank about potential fraudulent transactions. Having a payment system using the CB's infrastructure doesn't change anything.

That's just... a completely false assertion on its face? Putting the CB in the middle lets the CB (read: government) proactively block any set of transactions at will, and at scale, before anyone has any chance to litigate or otherwise dispute it. Which literally lets the government entirely cut off any citizen's ability to access the rest of human society. That makes no difference in your eyes vs. post-facto investigation/warrants/etc.?

We saw a live example of this with the IRS too, no? Do you think they would've had just as easy of a time accessing such financial records if they were held by a private entity than by the IRS itself?

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#716

Post by dragontamer »

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #339
dragontamer wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new alignment isnt East vs West... But North vs Global South, which Brazil sees itself a part of the South.

> The new alignment isnt East vs West... But North vs Global South, which Brazil sees itself a part of the South. Where's Russia and Australia then?

And Cuba was in the West during the Cold war. We knew what East vs West meant, it's more a figurative phrase than anything.

Today's alignment is shaping up to be North and South. Not quite 'versus' like the Cold war was.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#717

Post by l23k4 »

joe_mamba wrote: post #702
l23k4 wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this supposed to be surprising? These kinds of customers are a huge compliance burden for the bank, why should the banks keep doing business with customers that most likely cost them money?

Because the Czech branch of the French bank operates under Czech not French laws. French rules don't have jurisdiction in Czechia.

That has nothing to do with why this is happening.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#718

Post by swed420 »

nozzlegear wrote: post #466
swed420 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it isn't. It's safe to assume you've either drunk the kool-aid or have something to gain monetarily (even if falsely assumed) by allowing the illusion to persist. Either way, you're literally part of the problem, as is anyone else who still takes this system seriously.

> It's safe to assume you've either drunk the kool-aid or have something to gain monetarily (even if falsely assumed) by allowing the illusion to persist. Either way, you're literally part of the problem, as is anyone else who still takes this system seriously. Is it? Am I? As a former Sanders caucuser who didn't fall for his supporters' both sides bullshit, perhaps some self-reflection on why running a candidate who…

Are you kidding? Hillary was hated by so many demographics. Forcing her (in a blatantly unfair fashion, to anybody paying attention) twice was so absurd that it qualifies as a prime example of manufacturing consent for capital interests.

"Vote for our capital shill or else you're hitler" is demonstrably not a winning strategy, especially when her Pied Piper shenanigans as revealed by wikileaks ultimately delivered us Trump.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#719

Post by swed420 »

8note wrote: post #647
swed420 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Sanders supporter, it became clear that even though Bernie was likely acting in good faith, the establishment used all of their levers politically and in capital-controlled media to limit him to the role of controlled opposition. Emphasis on "controlled." > ethical capitalists That is not a coherent concept, especially in late stage capitalism.

he's not actually a member of the party. They let him run in their party primaries, rather than him being a democrat. with that context its more sensible that the party brass wasnt particularly pro-bernie. they did their job by letting him run at all

Tired Reddit-tier take. This is why we are where we are now.

Re: Goodbye Visa and Mastercard: 130M Europeans switching to sovereign payment

#720

Post by swed420 »

nozzlegear wrote: post #477
swed420 wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former Sanders supporter, it became clear that even though Bernie was likely acting in good faith, the establishment used all of their levers politically and in capital-controlled media to limit him to the role of controlled opposition. Emphasis on "controlled." > ethical capitalists That is not a coherent concept, especially in late stage capitalism.

I caucused for Sanders 2016 in Iowa. He lost the primary fair and square, and was mathematically eliminated before superdelegates even factored into the contest at all. Sanders had zero appeal outside of white, college-educated people like myself, whereas Clinton was very popular with minorities and white, college-educated people. She was just a better candidate for the Democrat primary, and if you want to win the ge…

Are you a DNC bot? You sure are hitting all of the classics.
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