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Migrating to the EU

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Re: Migrating to the EU

#711

Post by pjmlp »

_pdp_ wrote: post #37

Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tackled.

Including EU sponsored programming languages and OSes?

This is something I think it is a blind spot we have and not big answer, because even if we take into account FOSS, ISO and ECMA languages, the biggest sponsors for those toolchains are US companies.

It will take decades to go back to the cold war days, of hardware, programming languages and OSes with European origin.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#712

Post by _pdp_ »

mr_00ff00 wrote: post #677
_pdp_ wrote: post #37

Our company started migrating our tech stack from USA to EU. We are about 90% there with a few small dependencies that could be resolved but we have not yet tackled.

What are some of the biggest EU alternatives for US big tech? When I Google this I find a lot of options, but not sure which are actually mature tech companies vs start-up hopefuls

IMHO there are not that many and this is a good thing. You can build them.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#714

Post by gib444 »

carlosjobim wrote: post #709
gib444 wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic Maps is great for offline. It even did better directions in Europe recently, because Google Maps does not have an "avoid unpaved roads" option. Apple Maps does driving directions way better in general - better visuals, speech etc. It does foreign pronunciations better too IIRC. It's even not bad as a PWA on Android ( https://maps.apple.com ). Google Maps loves to say take eg "exit Via Emilio Enrico" on some r…

Organic Maps is great for offline navigation, agreed. Also better than the rest for hiking trails. But it doesn't have anywhere near the features of Google Maps. I wanted to like Apple Maps, but when you are traveling and actually need maps to find your way around, it's unusable. For example visiting some of the top cities in the world, and Apple Maps doesn't have public transport info. Or outdated business informati…

Maybe you could enumerate with more detail exactly how Google Maps is unmatched and what features you need? You haven't said much so far. You also won't really acknowledge negatives of it so I think you are not being very objective. Yes public transport is a good one but only perhaps unmatched by breadth

Citymapper is excellent for public transport.

Google Maps relies on business owners updating details too, often outdated and incorrect. They also doesn't publish a lot of helpful negative reviews

Yes basically you need more than one app for the different things but I prefer that to one single and frankly mediocre app

Re: Migrating to the EU

#715

Post by ohhman11 »

foldr wrote: post #698
ohhman11 wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You understand that these aren't typically public, right? There's not any particularly good mechanism to discover abuse in this system in the first place, because the checks and balances are largely left to the requesting state.

Where are search warrants issued via public proceedings? You could make the same point about any jurisdiction. Also, account first created in 2021, coincidentally starts posting right after the other account in this thread is replaced with a green account?

>Where are search warrants issued via public proceedings? You could make the same point about any jurisdiction.

It's different though, typically you can fight those warrants after the fact, with EIOs you have to do the fighting in a jurisdiction you don't live in.

This is all deeply problematic because things like "probable cause" have very different meanings in different EU countries, even if on paper it's all supposed to be the same.

>Also, account first created in 2021, coincidentally starts posting right after the other account in this thread is replaced with a green account?

Certainly not a coincidence.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#716

Post by ohhman11 »

asimops wrote: post #710
dinowars wrote: post #88

> First, I tried mailbox.org, which I can generally recommend without reservation. Unfortunately, you can’t send emails from any address on your own domain without a workaround I use mailbox for a long time, one account for 2.50EUR/month with multiple custom domains and I can send emails from any address. To send from a different address the process didn't really seem different than other providers. From Thunderbird…

I know it is late, but for anyone reading this now, as I am: Mailbox.org is completely ignoring DMARC since months... And their handling of the issue IMHO is incompetent at best. See this thread (in German) https://userforum.mailbox.org/topic/10676-mailbox-org-akzept...

That's just inexcusably bad. They claimed to be working on the issue 7 months ago, but that was obviously a straight up lie.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#717

Post by foldr »

ohhman11 wrote: post #715
foldr wrote: post #698

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where are search warrants issued via public proceedings? You could make the same point about any jurisdiction. Also, account first created in 2021, coincidentally starts posting right after the other account in this thread is replaced with a green account?

>Where are search warrants issued via public proceedings? You could make the same point about any jurisdiction. It's different though, typically you can fight those warrants after the fact, with EIOs you have to do the fighting in a jurisdiction you don't live in. This is all deeply problematic because things like "probable cause" have very different meanings in different EU countries, even if on paper it's all suppo…

Maybe stick to one account? It’s confusing for the rest of us, if nothing else.

You are determined not to point to any specific examples and you keep switching to different abstract arguments. For example, you’ve now dropped the point about EIOs being non-public in some sort of allegedly sinister way, and are raising a different set of equally irrelevant abstract points.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#718

Post by carlosjobim »

gib444 wrote: post #714
carlosjobim wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Organic Maps is great for offline navigation, agreed. Also better than the rest for hiking trails. But it doesn't have anywhere near the features of Google Maps. I wanted to like Apple Maps, but when you are traveling and actually need maps to find your way around, it's unusable. For example visiting some of the top cities in the world, and Apple Maps doesn't have public transport info. Or outdated business informati…

Maybe you could enumerate with more detail exactly how Google Maps is unmatched and what features you need? You haven't said much so far. You also won't really acknowledge negatives of it so I think you are not being very objective. Yes public transport is a good one but only perhaps unmatched by breadth Citymapper is excellent for public transport. Google Maps relies on business owners updating details too, often ou…

There's plenty of negatives for Google Maps. None of those are deal-breakers, while the negatives of other apps are deal-breakers.

Negatives of Google Maps:

- Awful graphical interface

- Bad performance

- Ads

- Offline maps could be better implemented

Features where other apps fail, but Google Map works well:

- Unable to zoom or pan map because of janky response. This core feature needs to be right, or the app is unusable.

- No public transport integration. Makes the app unusable if you're on vacation in a different country without your vehicle. Apple Maps fails hard on this. Which is when you are most in need of good maps.

- No routing or bad routing, or routing only for cars and not for bicycles or public transport. Deal breaker for everyday use. Organic Maps has awful routing.

- No business information or outdated business information. For example, Apple Maps will ignore or reject updates which you as a business send to them, using the Apple Business account.

- No or few or outdated photos for businesses. Reviews aren't that reliable, as you mention. But photos will tell you many times what you want to know.

Re: Migrating to the EU

#719

Post by Bewelge »

ohhman11 wrote: post #695
Bewelge wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boiling down the different approaches to freedom of speech to "The baseline level is higher/lower", has always been a pretty simplistic (and if you would actually delve into the topic a little, flat out wrong) view . Freedom of speech is not absolute. Neither in Europe nor in the US. Both effectively have rules restricting certain speech. For example, speech that may harm others, such as inciting violence or maybe th…

>For example, speech that may harm others, such as inciting violence or maybe the most famous example: "Shouting FIRE in a full venue". Perhaps a misquote from 1919 wartime supreme court decision involving an anti-draft activist isn't a great example? Even when correctly quoted, this quote is utterly meaningless in 2026. >Freedom of speech is not absolute Nobody ever claims it is? That's literally never in dispute, f…

> Perhaps a misquote from 1919 wartime supreme court decision involving an anti-draft activist isn't a great example? Even when correctly quoted, this quote is utterly meaningless in 2026.

I was not actually quoting any specific American case law but referring to the general legal concept. But even if I had referred to it specifically, it would not be meaningless. If I understand correctly, the US has overturned that specific case, but to my understanding the legal concept behind it remains in effect. But I see how my use of quotes and the choice of words "most famous example" was confusing here. I was not aware that there is this specific US case where the "Fire in a theater" phrase originates from and was talking about the general concept of purposefully causing a panic in a crowded space.

>Freedom of speech is not absolute

> Nobody ever claims it is? That's literally never in dispute, fraud (for example) is illegal everywhere.

I never claimed that anyone claimed that.

I thought that the preceding statement was too simplistic for a complex topic and tried to offer a more differentiated explanation. Why are you upset that I started that explanation with a statement that you agree is true?

Re: Migrating to the EU

#720

Post by exiguus »

thiisguy wrote: post #683
exiguus wrote: post #674

My next phone will be also one that is supported by GraphenOS. Currently, my private setup is: - VPN: Windscribe [CA] - AI: Mistral [FR] - Phone: De-Googled Fairphone [NL] (F-Droid/Aurora/OpenStreetMap) - Search: Self-hosted SearXNG + YACY (since ~10 years / good setup & documentation) - Domain Provider: INWX [DE] (since +10 years / good setup & documentation) - DNS: Self-hosted AdGuard Home / dnscrypt-proxy 2 + dnsd…

Interested to hear what hardware you have if you’d mind sharing some details.

Actually, I moved from dedicated hardware last year to using KVM VPSs, interconnected via VLANs and tunnels (like WireGuard or rathole).

Cost and flexibility were the main reasons. This allows me to change locations, upgrade plans, or switch hardware more easily. Before, I ran a Proxmox cluster at home on an two old Supermicro server and a Protectli Vault (which still exists as a single Proxmox instance), plus instances on Hetzner and Webtropia with a dedicated server. That setup cost around 150 EUR/month, even split with a friend.

For local storage, I use 2x QNAP NAS.

For time synchronization, I rely on 2x NTP270 from CenterClick.

As a TAP device, I use the Protectli Vault and a Pi 4b.

AdGuard Home is deployed on my OpenWrt GL.iNet routers.

Most of my services are now hosted on VPSs:

3x Netcup VPS 1000 ARM G11 (6 vCores, 8GB RAM, 256GB NVMe) 7.29 EUR/month each

3x Netcup VPS piko G11s (1 vCore, 1GB RAM, 30GB SSD) 1.60 EUR/month each

1x Webtropia Cloud VPS S2 (4 vCores, 8GB RAM, 100GB NVMe) 4.99 EUR/month

1x Contabo Storage VPS 20 (3 vCores, 8GB RAM, 400GB SSD) 6.66 EUR/month

2x IONOS VPS Linux M+ (4 vCores, 4GB RAM, 120GB NVMe) 4.00 EUR/month each

Total monthly cost for all servers: 46.32 EUR.

For failover and load balancing I use DNS (via round-robin and inwx-dns-in-git).

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