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Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

discuss.ai.google.dev

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Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#711

Post by tapvt »

saalweachter wrote: post #647
miroljub wrote: post #628

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So purely from a hacker perspective, I'm amused at the whining. > Like, a corporation had a weakness you could exploit to get free/cheap thing. Fair game. From a pure hacker perspective, I'm surprised there are people calling a legitimate usage a "weakness you could exploit"? What weakness? What exploit? People have been using it in a way that was technically possible. And they paid for it, many purchased the produ…

I mean, the "exploit" is really "we have an access key with overly-broad permissions and poor monitoring", but that's ... also kind of like 70% of old hacker stories? "The gate code is 1234" "If you punch in this code it tricks the phone network into thinking you're an operator" "The credentials 'guest'/'guest' work on this network". You probably could have had five, ten people using the Antigravity API key for whate…

This is where my mind went.

A curious person or two poking around is one thing.

A few hundred, or thousands, of "AI enthusiasts," or however you'd like to imagine OpenClaw users, could likely approach the scale of "a problem."

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#712

Post by neodymiumphish »

otterley wrote: post #707
8note wrote: post #700

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the monopoly here is on web indexing, isnt it?

Nope. Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex, and Kagi all have more-or-less complete indices. There's no moat around scraping the public Web.

I’m a Kagi user, but I understood this recent post by the Kagi team to mean that they do not index the web themselves and that it’s nearly impossible for them to do so.

https://blog.kagi.com/waiting-dawn-search

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#713

Post by h4kunamata »

I am in that phase of my life that seeing people complaining about big techs gives me no sympathy.

These companies keep telling you that you own nothing, they change their TOS without informing you, they collect everything they can from you and yet, you spend $249/mo for their service.

I mean......

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#714

Post by MichaelZuo »

cyberax wrote: post #310
MichaelZuo wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This obviously cannot be true, otherwise Costco would have been sued to oblivion for “dumping” their rotisserie chickens.

Costco gets to sidestep a lot of regulations because they technically are a private club with paid membership. The US anti-monopoly laws are also unusually weak. In other countries, selling a $7 chicken if it's subsidized by the sale of other goods can indeed be illegal.

If you now acknowledge there is a carve out… couldn’t there be two carve outs? Or more?

It seems like you havent thought this through at all.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#716

Post by BoorishBears »

adastra22 wrote: post #598
BoorishBears wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not about a tweet, just read your own quote. You cannot authenticate with anything but Claude Code and Claude.ai. But you do not need to authenticate with Claude Agent SDK (even though you can using env variables). When you authenticate with Claude Code (allowed), Claude Agent SDK works without any further authentication. It's really annoying that people keep trying to make this complicated because the inevitabl…

Did you read the second part? The ToS explicitly says that using the Agent SDK with Pro/Max authentication is disallowed. There is no ambiguity or interpretation here.

You do not need to give Agent SDK any credentials (completely optional)

But honestly, this is the side of intentionally misunderstanding that's actually preferable so: "You're absolutely right! You can't use your subscription to build yet another vibeslop harness, please refrain from doing so."

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#718

Post by merlindru »

skeledrew wrote: post #238
merlindru wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

claude -p is allowed as far as I'm aware. if i understand correctly, they even have a wrapper around it to make it easier to use: the Claude Agent SDK the thing that's disallowed is pretending you're the claude binary, logging in through OAuth in other words, if you use some product thats not Claude Code, and your browser opens asking you to "give Claude Code access to your account", you're in hot water as for how th…

Why a couple warnings and timeout? 1 warning that the next incident will lead to a ban should be enough. Treat people like adults, not kids.

adults make mistakes and the situation was murky without clear guidance.

this was the experience for some claude subscribers just a couple weeks ago:

1. download opencode

2. select claude as a model

3. browser window opens, asking you to sign in. typical oauth screen.

4. everything works, prompt away

5. some days/weeks pass

6. you get permanently banned

now if you add one warning email just before step (6.) then that doesn't really help. what if it bounces? what if people don't check their emails? put a big flashy red warning into claude code? sure, but what if users accidentally dismiss it or simply do not understand it (non tech folks, non native english speakers)

its just the friendly and correct thing to do, in my opinion

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#719

Post by jacquesm »

joshuamorton wrote: post #691
jacquesm wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what that comment implies. Whether it is tracked explicitly or implicitly, the idea that there is a matrix that establishes your linkage to other accounts is the bit that I take issue with because the conclusion for me is that Google is able to infer things about the people they hold data on that they never ever should have access to. If you have a credible alternative explanation of what it does mean…

> This all revolves around implied ability... Google should not have this capability The entire "ability" here is, as far as I can tell, is that it's possible to connect accounts to IP addresses. This is something that practically every system does. HN does it to stop abuse and ban-dodging. Wikipedia does it. You're reading an incredible amount of bad faith into the concept of IP bans. > but effectively you are defen…

The existence of said data store implies that they are using that data store, it is impossible without looking in the box to know what is being done with it. Erring on the side of caution with these things seems to pay off, especially when it concerns Google, who in this respect is only outdone by Facebook.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#720

Post by jacquesm »

cyberax wrote: post #694
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I studied economics in Russia, and the term "dumping" was used in a more general sense as "selling goods or services below their cost" Oooh! Do you have a recommendation for a translation of a Russian economics text? I’m particularly curious of Soviet-era texts that work on theory without prices. > correct term for the US is "predatory pricing", and it's also prohibited by the Sherman Act Sherman prohibits the “res…

> Oooh! Do you have a recommendation for a translation of a Russian economics text? I’m particularly curious of Soviet-era texts that work on theory without prices. I don't think they exist? The Soviet Union used prices internally as an accounting tool. It essentially had two separate currencies: the actual physical currency that regular people owned and the virtual "accounting" currency. The accounting currency coul…

They also had 'hard' money and a fictive exchange rate between the 'hard' (Western) currencies and the internal one. And a whole machine dedicated to obtaining as much of this hard money as possible without returning anything of real value for it.
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