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The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

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Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#711

Post by kube-system »

jjk166 wrote: post #709
kube-system wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a single person going between two major metro areas, for sure. But a lot of the working poor have families and travel to/from places that aren't major metro areas, and this can change the math really fast.

No one is arguing the working poor exclusively fly, the point is there are plenty of people who do fly for whom the fee is significant.

I know. I was simply disputing the idea that ~600+ mile flights are cheaper than driving. They only are in very specific circumstances.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#712

Post by jjk166 »

rngfnby wrote: post #137
t-3 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying domestically is usually cheaper than driving once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two. Also, RealID isn't fully permeated yet - my state won't fully phase out non-RealIDs until 2029.

"once you get past the range of a tank of gas or two." This is like the folks who say flying is more carbon friendly than driving. It's wrong, you're comparing a vehicle running cost with one passenger vs a full vehicle normalized by its capacity. No one flies 30 mi commutes. Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

> Few drive 600+ mi empty or alone.

Because if you are going 600+ mi alone with minimal luggage you fly, because it's cheaper.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#713

Post by jMyles »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #700
jMyles wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I consider myself a pretty strong First Amendment supporter, but if I routinely found strange men filming me as I walked down the street, I would support basically any legal change required to make them stop. It strikes me that the first clause of this sentence and the last one are unambiguously contradictory.

I don't think so? The behavior of these auditors is not speech in any meaningful sense; they're not trying to communicate any message, they're just trying to make people around them uncomfortable. It's just hard to draw a clear line that would prohibit their behavior without chilling lawful speech. Right now I don't think there are that many First Amendment auditors around, so there's not much point in passing new la…

> The behavior of these auditors is not speech in any meaningful sense;

I didn't suggest it was speech; it's press, no?

Again, I don't have enough context to cast judgment about them being assholes or violating some other law (like harassment, etc) - I don't support that _at all_.

However, the basic right to document one's surroundings in public is absolutely essential to liberty, especially now.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#714

Post by jjk166 »

II2II wrote: post #100
OkayPhysicist wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Undocumented immigrants can have authentic, non-"RealID" ids, as things such as drivers licenses are the purview of the states, and infringement there upon is an attack on their constitutional sovereignty. California, for example, is perfectly happy to give out drivers licenses to anybody who can establish residency and pass the test, since there's no sense in creating a double jeopardy situation wherein because some…

> It's the same reason the IRS gives you a spot to declare your bribes and other illegal income. The California example makes sense. They aren't asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. The IRS example doesn't make sense, since they are asking a question that would lead to the admission of a crime. Even if the answer was legally protected, a government who does not respect the law (or one that c…

The accepted legal method of declaring illicit gains on your tax documents is pleading the 5th amendment for specific questions related to the source of the funds. Fun fact, you can also take deduct business expenses for many expensees related to illegal activities if you otherwise qualify for them, for example legal fees. There are specific restrictions but they are surprisingly narrow.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#715

Post by jjk166 »

kube-system wrote: post #711
jjk166 wrote: post #709

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is arguing the working poor exclusively fly, the point is there are plenty of people who do fly for whom the fee is significant.

I know. I was simply disputing the idea that ~600+ mile flights are cheaper than driving. They only are in very specific circumstances.

I would not describe travelling alone as "very specific circumstances." It is extremely common. 70% of all car trips are solo, and the average number of occupants for all car trips is 1.5. That you can get more bang for your buck driving if you have enough passengers and luggage doesn't change the fact plenty of people don't.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#716

Post by saagarjha »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #518
saagarjha wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be nice if we could get rid of them, eh?

I sure do want to get rid of the entire concept of "economy" class. If all seats were business class, than economics of scale would kick in and average ticket prices would be more like 2X per seat rather than the 5-10X that you pay for business class vs economy. Flying is a war-crime in the sky for anyone not in business class.

You must have a very different idea than I do of “economics of scale” if your idea is to make every ticket cost more so fewer people can afford it.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#717

Post by aleph_minus_one »

keeda wrote: post #695
aleph_minus_one wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Even Bruce Schneier, who coined the term "security theater" has moderated his stance to acknowledge that it can satisfy a real psychological need, even if it's irrational. What about the real psychological need of not wanting to be surveilled that also quite a lot of people have?

Personally I agree with that sentiment. But unfortunately, as the success of Facebook and Google have shown, most people really don't care about their privacy.

> But unfortunately, as the success of Facebook and Google have shown, most people really don't care about their privacy.

In particular concerning Facebook:

The very radical stances that people have concerning Facebooks (i.e. both the success of Facebook, and the existence of people who are radically opposed to social media sites) rather shows that both stances are very present in society and the trenches between these stances run deep.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#718

Post by mrguyorama »

crazygringo wrote: post #698
addaon wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about we restrict airport and aircraft access based on individual's ability to do harm, rather than on the information in some trusted database? It sure seems like the major incidents in my lifetime would have been better prevented by keeping people with guns and bombs out than people with poor paperwork skills…

The most "major" incident in recent history was 9/11 which involved neither guns nor bombs. So I don't know what you're talking about.

9/11 hasn't been a relevant threat since halfway through 9/11

Because we closed the door. Like was policy already.

9/11 could not have happened had the doors been closed.

The door being closed is how the Flight 93 terrorists prevented passengers from re-taking the flight.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#719

Post by tdeck »

KptMarchewa wrote: post #487
tdeck wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the practical benefits we're supposed to get from the RealID system? All I've ever heard is "national security" which is the excuse for every harmful thing.

For example, all those stupid voter debates becomes moot.

RealID has nothing to do with voting. Residency and citizenship is already verified when you register to vote. RealID is not a requirement to vote.

Re: The TSA's New $45 Fee to Fly Without ID Is Illegal

#720

Post by tdeck »

0x457 wrote: post #685
tdeck wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the practical benefits we're supposed to get from the RealID system? All I've ever heard is "national security" which is the excuse for every harmful thing.

For started, we stop talking about "Is Real ID worth it" and annual "Real ID for sure will be required next year"

Cancelling RealID would have those same benefits.
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