Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

711–720 of 944 posts

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#711

Post by direwolf20 »

burgreblast wrote: post #655
wlesieutre wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I wouldn't be that shocked if Apple tried demanding a 30% royalty on bank deposits and bills paid using iPhone apps. They've decided the future of their company depends on being huge assholes about it.

When you use Apple Pay, Apple collects ~0.15% (15 bps) from the issuing banks for credit. $1B in transaction volume = $1.5M In 2022 the total volume was estimated at $6T * .15% = $9B. Real number would be maybe half due to lower fees on debit, but it's hugely profitable for Apple, and carries zero risk.

They'd much rather have 30%.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#712

Post by fauigerzigerk »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #566
direwolf20 wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they don't control those. Apple could choose to only allow users to access websites that pay them a bit 30% fee, but users would notice the web was turned off on their device. They don't notice when the app store does it.

I don't think people would notice if Apple just made the website behind a paywall. Most people are not going to be aware that they can access the same content without paying a fee to Apple. They may only even have an Apple device to access the internet, so they'd just see it as normal

I doubt it. People are pretty savvy when it's about getting something more cheaply or for free.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#713

Post by mrguyorama »

browningstreet wrote: post #630
TheDong wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably you also would agree that it's fair if Chrome, Windows, and Lenovo all charged me 30% each for using Patreon via Chrome+Windows on a thinkpad, right? They're doing about as much to facilitate my use of Patreon as Apple is. This isn't like a mall at all. This is like a web browser, where apps are webpages, and Apple is insisting that the contents of that webpage are something they can dictate all payment te…

Chrome, Windows and Lenovo don't have the payment system baked in, with all the consumer protections that come with it. I'm not entirely pro-Apple percentage in this argument, but I think people often dismiss the magical thing that Apple created with the app store and their payment/subscription system. The rest of the world keeps ripping users off, and Apple's walled garden is as protected a thing as it gets. I've go…

Apple's walled garden couldn't even protect it's users from a literal LastPass scam app. It was reviewed by Apple. It passed. It was in the store.

The screenshots for the app had "Documets" and "Lasspass" prominently visible

Nothing about this is for your sake.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#714

Post by direwolf20 »

gyulai wrote: post #492
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If a user almost exclusively uses the Patreon ios app to consume the artist’s content and likes to live inside the ios ecosystem for frictionless payments using the card on file/privacy/UX/whatever, then I feel apple should get to set the terms of engagement. When I paid over $1000 to buy an iPhone I thought I was buying a technological product that I could use to improve my life. I didn’t realize I was buying a ti…

> I certainly think it’s incredibly false marketing for Apple to claim I bought an iphone, when in reality I paid upfront for essentially AOL. I wonder if that has ever been tried against Apple or a similar company in a court of law, because I think there might be real merit there. One would have to get a bunch of people together claiming a refund on the purchase price on the grounds that ownership hasn't been transf…

You have the legal right to do anything to your iPhone that you please, except for DMCA circumvention. Apple, cleverly, designs it so you can't do very much without DMCA circumvention. But it is the government's fault for this loophole, not Apple's.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#715

Post by direwolf20 »

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #698
gyulai wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. We don't have any such thing as small claims court in Germany, but my expectation would be that judges in low-level courts will try their very best not to get noticed for setting any kind of precedent whatsoever. The only thing that's going to happen if you rule against Apple in a low-level court is that they will go into revision, and carrying a high probability that the higher-level judge will overtur…

>but my expectation would be that judges in low-level courts will try their very best not to get noticed for setting any kind of precedent whatsoever. Is there even such a thing as precedent in the German legal system?

There isn't.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#716

Post by mrguyorama »

mrighele wrote: post #614
saimiam wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a user almost exclusively uses the Patreon ios app to consume the artist’s content and likes to live inside the ios ecosystem for frictionless payments using the card on file/privacy/UX/whatever, then I feel apple should get to set the terms of engagement. If you were a chain store in a high end mall where customers cars were all parked for free by valets, mall staff knew their names, and generally made them feel…

Should Ford get a 30% cut every time you fill your gas tank ?

Don't worry, we are well into "car branded fuel only" territory with electric vehicles.

"Buy our electricity at a huge markup to power your vehicle. Oh, you don't have one of our vehicles? Sorry, that's an extra 10% on top"

This was dystopic scifi like 20 years ago and Americans are so clueless they just sleepwalked into it because they'd rather not have a government at all.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#718

Post by hombre_fatal »

ulrikrasmussen wrote: post #587
stouset wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> downloading and using packages & executables from the internet Oh boy, now my mom can get the full experience of having malware on her phone too!

With freedom also comes responsibility, and some innocent people will inevitably shoot themselves in the foot. This is not a strong enough argument for putting everybody else in a cage and letting a duopoly take over virtually all of the distribution of consumer software.

Well, you have to balance it with how much you want to line the coffers of malicious actors.

If you go all the way to "everyone should have the freedom to get pwned", then you are also funneling the money of innocents into the pockets of some of the worst people in the world, and that's not a great outcome just to make life more convient for some HNers.

The question is about what trade-off makes sense for most people. That probably is some sort of escape hatch nontech people just won't do.

Maybe it's a hard thing to appreciate until you've watched aging family members get tricked by absolute scum, mostly enabled by how loosey-goosey modern computing can still be.

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#719

Post by yeezyszn »

josephcsible wrote: post #687
yeezyszn wrote: post #673

I’m surprised at the comments here. Why should the government set the “right” margin? If you cap the margin, you’re entrenching the monopoly forever. Allow them to charge what they want, and set tax rates on corporations commensurate with the size of their profits. Make it easier for competitors to start. The path to a sustainable marketplace does not come from top down enforcement of margins. It comes from competiti…

> Why should the government set the “right” margin? For monopolies, that is the least bad option. What would be way better, though, is mandating an end to that monopoly by allowing all users to install any apps they want on their iPhones without needing Apple's permission in any way, shape, or form.

You’re permanently entrenching them as the winner, and reducing the incentive for a competitor to emerge. The cost of developing these platforms is high and clearly it’s hard enough to compete, why would you kneecap future competitors from the get go?

Re: Apple to soon take up to 30% cut from all Patreon creators in iOS app

#720

Post by sfblah »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #652
nabla9 wrote: post #327

Apple’s App Store profits on commissions from digital sales Revenue $32 B Operating Costs $7 B [1] Estimated Profit $25 B Operating Margin ~78% [1] R&D, security, hosting, human review, and including building and maintaining developer tools Xcode, APIs, and SDKs. Apple could take just 7% cut and still make 20% profits. Fun Fact: During the Epic trial, it was revealed that Apple's profit margins on the App Store were…

That's not how business works. The App Store in current form would not exist without all the collective investment that went into all of Apple's hardware, for instance. Microsoft Office: Revenue $45B Operating Costs $12B Profit $33B Operating Margin 75% Google Search Ads: Revenue $175B Operating Costs $45B Profit $130B Operating Margin 75%

Being a monopolist is good fun until they storm the Bastille.
Post reply on HN