Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

e360.yale.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

711–720 of 809 posts

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#711

Post by benjymo »

when_creaks wrote: post #247

Encouraging. However, it isn't clear from the article at first glance (or the deeper analysis being referenced) how electricity consumption by power source is changing. In other words, as an example, a 10% increase in solar power generation does not necessarily mean that there was a 10% increase in electricity consumption where that electricity was generated via solar. i.e. It is entirely possible for a growing solar…

Batteries are relatively cheap and ideal for shifting solar power generation from noon into the evening.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#712

Post by benjymo »

sajithdilshan wrote: post #612

Another sensational headline. As someone living in Berlin, the capital of Europe’s largest economy, I see the effects firsthand. Germany’s aggressive green energy push has driven energy costs so high that heating has effectively become a luxury. This winter, air quality has been among the worst in recent years because many people are burning wood to stay warm instead of using central heating. At the same time, manufa…

Do you have any sources for this?

I'm also living in Germany and heating is in no way considered a "luxury" nor have many people started burning wood. I don't even think many people would have the possibility to burn wood for heating in Berlin of all places.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#713

Post by cap11235 »

benjymo wrote: post #712
sajithdilshan wrote: post #612

Another sensational headline. As someone living in Berlin, the capital of Europe’s largest economy, I see the effects firsthand. Germany’s aggressive green energy push has driven energy costs so high that heating has effectively become a luxury. This winter, air quality has been among the worst in recent years because many people are burning wood to stay warm instead of using central heating. At the same time, manufa…

Do you have any sources for this? I'm also living in Germany and heating is in no way considered a "luxury" nor have many people started burning wood. I don't even think many people would have the possibility to burn wood for heating in Berlin of all places.

Don't feed the bot.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#715

Post by Tor3 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #615
embedding-shape wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

> I'd be happy to pay more in taxes Giving money to politicians is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

Not sure how it is where you live, but when I pay taxes they don't go to politicians. The taxes go to health care facilities, infrastructure, education, etc. etc. Only a small percentage goes to pay politicians, and it's all in the open - we know exactly how much each of them is getting.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#716

Post by Tor3 »

colechristensen wrote: post #407
embedding-shape wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a great deal if you own a home, if I was a renter/condo owner I'd be annoyed that everyone is subsidizing your free solar however. What kind of selfish point of view is this? Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? Seems like a no brainer deal if you like "the outside" and you want it to still be there. I'm a…

>Don't you want people to use energy sources that are better for our entire world, even if it costs you like $10 more in taxes per year? If everyone gets the benefit it's either A) exactly the same cost but with additional government program or B) some form of wealth distribution and not necessarily in a direction you favor Also large solar installations are significantly more cost efficient. Mind you I am IN FAVOR o…

In Japan, where we're currently getting rooftop solar (like nearly every single house everywhere) there are indeed some large solar installations, but the point of rooftop solar (which the government is encouraging) is that it reduces the pressure on the grid itself, and upgrading the grid in Japan to where it should ideally be is a huge, no, astronomical undertaking. For various reasons.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#717

Post by benjymo »

Tor3 wrote: post #702
a_paddy wrote: post #603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do not underestimate the impact of transitioning from incandescent to LED lighting. An average home could be consuming 1Kw for lighting alone at busy times.

Where heating is needed, and where heating is done by electricity, changing to LED lighting indoors don't make any difference whatsoever. Unless your main heating source is a heat pump. In my home there's a heat pump upstairs, but not downstairs. All the lights downstairs are now LED, but the only effect that has is monetary - LED lights are way more expensive, and contrary to claims, don't last longer either. But th…

Is this really a lot of people that use resistive heating?

Also at least it saves electricity during summer when you don't want to dump even more heat into the room.

As a side, from my experience LEDs last significantly longer than incadescant LEDs. Maybe it's something to do with the power grid fluctuating more in certain areas?

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#718

Post by ncruces »

owenversteeg wrote: post #300
eigenspace wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It can be rather misleading to to talk about renewable energy generation versus total energy usage. Most uses of fossil fuels are very inefficient. For instance, when you step on the accelerator in your car, only around 30% of the energy in the fuel you use actually is being used to propel you forward. The majority of the energy is wasted as heat. In a power plant that's more like 70% being captured and going towards…

I mostly agree. Certainly transportation is an obvious one. But of course there are still some losses; when you include all the losses in the system and cold weather you can easily get ~80% for EVs vs. ~30% for ICE cars. Heat pumps can be very efficient, but 5x more efficient than combustion/resistive heating (which is near 100%...) is not common in practice. 3x, sure, plenty of installations that get that or better…

Without disagreeing, I think it's worth acknowledging that vehicle weight will be a confounding issue for long range EVs.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#719

Post by benjymo »

nandomrumber wrote: post #519
owenversteeg wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only asterisk this time is that this is electricity, not energy. Still impressive, but electricity is only 22% of total energy use, so they are at about 12% of the total for the EU and 7.8% for Europe. For that, you want this graph: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou... Fun to play around with, you can also change the selection to view the world, US, China, individual EU countries etc. Y…

> The only asterisk this time is that this is electricity, not energy. … and 7.8% for Europe. Yes, the _! ONLY !_ thing is, this won’t move the needle at all on climate change. Wind and solar for electric is the lowest of low hanging fruit. No one has even proposed that they have maybe even possibly have perhaps thought of an idea to address transport and agriculture related emissions. Lithium ion batteries, or a sol…

> No one has even proposed that they have maybe even possibly have perhaps thought of an idea to address transport and agriculture related emissions.

That's weird. In europe trains, trucks, light trucks busses and cars are bascially solved with EVs. There are even some early beginnings for heavy construction and agriculture machinery but it doesn't seem to be mass market yet. Electric ferries also start to pop up for smaller distances.

The biggest issues seem to be ships and planes. Not sure there are any good solutions there.

Re: In Europe, wind and solar overtake fossil fuels

#720

Post by Tor3 »

fulafel wrote: post #226
weslleyskah wrote: post #205

> In 2025, both Ireland and Finland joined the ranks of European countries that have shuttered their last remaining coal plants. Interesting, they mentioned Finland. I wonder how Norway and Finland fair using solar since they have rigorous winters with polar nights.

Hydro in Norway, nuclear+wind in Finland. https://www.iea.org/countries/norway/electricity https://www.iea.org/countries/finland/electricity

It's actually hydro+wind in Norway, not just hydro. Hydro has been able to cover nearly 100% of household needs, and most of industry, up till now. The wind, controversial as it is in some places, has managed to offset some of the problems with hydro (nowadays the inter-European deals in practice forces Norway to sell off electricity from hydro in the summer, where in the past that would be saved for the upcoming winter)
Post reply on HN