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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#711

Post by skywhopper »

crazygringo wrote: post #36
benatkin wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They said sorry for how you feel about it which is insincere and unhelpful.

How? They don't know what exactly has gone wrong. All they can say sorry for is for how the person is feeling. Then they want to get on a call to learn more. Which is the start of helping. The response is as sincere and helpful as it could be for an initial response from someone who wants to figure out what the problem is.

This isn’t out of the blue. The responder was the lead on rolling out this new translation workflow to the community. Check out the thread (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/forums/contributors/717387...) and you’ll see people immediately called out the exact potential problems the OP here is complaining about, nearly three months ago. This is no need for the responder to follow up to better understand the complaints. They know exactly what the issues are.

Re: End of Japanese community

#712

Post by ecshafer »

mikkupikku wrote: post #682
rectang wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least part of the Mozilla antagonism on HN comes from highly motivated culture war participants. The Brendan Eich situation was a seminal event, but the underlying reasons for it are why the grudge endures.

If Mozilla were consistently making good decisions in the years since then, nobody would be wasting their time with "What if Eich were still in charge?" The only reason anybody still talks about that ousting is because they have other more current grievances with Mozilla. Also, the reason HN has so many people ready to gripe about Firefox is because HN still has a large number of people using Firefox. I never complai…

I used to give money to Mozilla foundation, even when I didnt have much. Then I learned none of it goes to firefox. I think if Eich was still in charge there would be more focus on Servo, Rust, etc. making a better browser and less on selling AI and channeling money to absurd NGO causes.

Re: End of Japanese community

#713

Post by nomel »

jameslk wrote: post #685
sameerds wrote: post #654

> Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. That has the same vibes as a customer support helpline that has no intention to actually help.

It may be viewed that way, but it’s also useful to empathize with someone and get more detail/nuance that can’t be conveyed simply over text. Especially when someone is not happy. I usually do the same thing when the medium is text and someone is not happy. Tone conveys a lot of useful information. Even better if you can see a person and their body language. I don’t think the cynical view of the staff person’s intent…

How about something a human might write, like “Let’s talk and see if we can change things so you don’t have to leave, and so we don’t lose more people.”

Re: End of Japanese community

#714

Post by metabagel »

npinsker wrote: post #694
jameslk wrote: post #685

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It may be viewed that way, but it’s also useful to empathize with someone and get more detail/nuance that can’t be conveyed simply over text. Especially when someone is not happy. I usually do the same thing when the medium is text and someone is not happy. Tone conveys a lot of useful information. Even better if you can see a person and their body language. I don’t think the cynical view of the staff person’s intent…

The request by itself is fine; it's not about that, but about the nuance within the word choice and what it conveys. It appears the OP is an incredibly valuable community member that has been deeply affronted and hurt by the recent changes. Any attitude other than "I'll move heaven and earth to make this right for you" will likely feel insufficient. Even failing that, I'd at least expect an attitude of "I really, REA…

I think the response is completely professional and appropriate. It's a request for more information.

Re: End of Japanese community

#715

Post by jahsome »

crazygringo wrote: post #665
AlexandrB wrote: post #648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is dismissive. "Your AI just deleted 20 years of my hard work" "Let's hop on a quick call so we can truly understand what you're struggling with". The response doesn't acknowledge the severity of the problem at all and the wording of "what you're struggling with" suggests that the original poster is somehow at fault (or too dumb) for "struggling" with Mozilla's terrible decisions. This is the kind of reply you'd g…

> "Your AI just deleted 20 years of my hard work" I assume it didn't. I can't imagine it's not versioned. > The response doesn't acknowledge the severity of the problem at all Offering to escalate to a phone call immediately seems to acknowledge the severity to me. Not really sure what you want here. The person came in with complaints, the response is to dig into them over the phone. That's ideal . > the wording of "…

If I take the time to organize my thoughts and present them, I want the person to whom I'm presenting them to attempt to respond.

If I failed to make myself clear, at a minimum, presenting me with a list of things needing clarification is helpful for me to take the time to prepare.

"Hop on a call" is to me almost always shorthand for "I don't respect the issue enough to attempt to organize my thoughts ahead of time, but I'll ramble about it and let you pick my brain." Or in the most malicious cases, the other party is seeking plausible deniability.

In my experience it's not that way 100% of the time, but it's damn close.

Re: End of Japanese community

#716

Post by price »

ecshafer wrote: post #712
mikkupikku wrote: post #682

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Mozilla were consistently making good decisions in the years since then, nobody would be wasting their time with "What if Eich were still in charge?" The only reason anybody still talks about that ousting is because they have other more current grievances with Mozilla. Also, the reason HN has so many people ready to gripe about Firefox is because HN still has a large number of people using Firefox. I never complai…

I used to give money to Mozilla foundation, even when I didnt have much. Then I learned none of it goes to firefox. I think if Eich was still in charge there would be more focus on Servo, Rust, etc. making a better browser and less on selling AI and channeling money to absurd NGO causes.

Eich's own company, Brave, is pushing AI plenty hard: the Brave browser promotes a "smart AI assistant" called Leo. That's much more AI integration than I see in Firefox.

Re: End of Japanese community

#717

Post by BrenBarn »

kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

Well, unless the person giving the corporate-sounding reply is the same one who made the decision to activate the translation bot in the first place, then no, it's not just two fallible humans. I have to assume there were multiple fallible humans involved in the process of doing the things that the Japanese user is responding to.

People are talking a lot here about the tone of the discussion, but lets not forget that the only reason the discussion is happening is because someone unleashed a translation bot. That was an actual action that was taken, and that is the root of the issue here, not what anyone said on a forum.

Re: End of Japanese community

#718

Post by aendruk »

ngruhn wrote: post #242
badgersnake wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Firefox is a good browser Increasingly it isn’t. It’s crashing 2 or 3 times a day for me now, and video conferencing is barely usable.

Hasn't crashed for me once and I use it daily.

I use Firefox exclusively. Crashes:

  Report ID                                Date Submitted
  bp-5587943e-af6f-47c2-a76c-085760251104  2025-11-03T16:18-08:00
  bp-a96400f2-ce05-46df-a842-d7c960251102  2025-11-01T17:18-07:00
  bp-917e4083-c1d6-492a-b730-61dd70251028  2025-10-28T10:59-07:00
  bp-6556dab8-37ed-4a6e-9aab-965c70251021  2025-10-21T09:46-07:00
  bp-b706c918-4851-4006-95ff-a97a70251008  2025-10-07T21:07-07:00
  bp-769d1eee-2154-4336-a448-7343e0251001  2025-10-01T11:12-07:00
  bp-e8720d2c-bd70-4e20-ac97-7b81f0250926  2025-09-26T10:31-07:00
  bp-086eb3f5-0507-4a0c-8482-b4d890250916  2025-09-16T11:36-07:00
  bp-2aeacd1a-2bd3-4bdb-a748-a3d080250827  2025-08-27T11:10-07:00
  bp-5528185d-592b-486a-922e-e52bc0250821  2025-08-21T14:23-07:00
  bp-1e06d027-b690-45b4-b507-d11e70250815  2025-08-15T15:59-07:00
  bp-d0ecb20a-9a39-459d-b3bf-446df0250807  2025-08-06T20:21-07:00
  bp-208cc026-e144-46e7-a891-aaddb0250804  2025-08-04T08:50-07:00

Re: End of Japanese community

#719

Post by iamtedd »

kstenerud wrote: post #395
whilenot-dev wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about communication though, it's about community. Mozilla just introduced a bot to overtake community efforts. > another asking to open a communication channel. The other person is asking to open a private communication channel. OT, but where is this reductionism-to-rationalize-trend coming from lately?

Community is also about communication. In fact, that's a primary aspect of a community. Yeah, Mozilla introduced a bot that's stomping on things. Are they malicious? Twirling neatly waxed mustaches as they cackle gleefully as the little ants scurry about in a panic? Or is this a case of humans doing what humans do: Screwing things up. The first step is to open communications, and the most effective form of communicat…

If they're just screwing things up, they're not learning from their mistakes. They already introduced the bot to the Spanish and Italian communities, with the same issues. To the roll it out further to the Japanese, and who knows who else, without fixing the issues is not speaking to their competence.

Re: End of Japanese community

#720

Post by soderfoo »

ninetyninenine wrote: post #605
kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

Why do humans pretend this is the most sensible way to go. You know on HN even with all these “polite” rules to make everything civil I still see shit that really just bends and goes around the rules. Example comments: “I’m baffled at how someone can think this way.” The tone is always performatively mild, but the intent is identical to “you’re an idiot.” Except they wrap it in this passive-aggressive intellectual co…

This is a master work and spot on. Thanks for the laugh.
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