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Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

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Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#711

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

That is interesting, why videos from Gaza has strong effects while Oct 7 don't. Or videos from Ukraine don't. Israel bombing a hospital in Gaza is genocide while russians bombing child hospital in Kyiv is ok.

Unfortunately not all nations are equal and many suffers because of that.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every major genocide I can think of has been precipitated by the actions of the victim group against the oppressor group. Indeed, in many cases, it's explicit that the perpetrators were looking for just such a pretence. The most serious genocide we're all aware of began, indeed, with a terrorist incident ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristallnacht ) -- a jewish boy assassinated a german diplomat. This comment also…

The terrorist attack of 2023 had such magnitude that Israel was allowed to do 50 times worse with no immediate punishment, but this pretence is getting old and they're in too deep: I think that the people who think that it's possible for both parties to live in peace are kidding themselves. There is no good solution to this conflict because enemies cannot suddenly become friends. There are only bad "solutions".

Only holding fixed the position of the US. The US can impose any solution on the situation it likes.

You're assuming a determinism here following from the narrow tribal logic of the situation, but you have King Kong with his thumb on the scale.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#714
post #697

Every time I've looked into the arguments for this being a genocide, I saw, at best, a description of urban warfare. Maybe I am wrong. If anyone is still reading this thread, could you write what you believe will happen after Israel won the war?

Given the deliberate creation of unlivable conditions on the ground and the absence of any viable plan for restoring Palestinian life and sovereignty, the civilian population of Gaza faces two primary and foreseeable outcomes:

Mass mortality from non-combat causes: The synergistic crisis of famine, disease, and healthcare collapse makes widespread death from starvation, dehydration, and preventable illness a mathematical certainty in the coming months. A significant portion of the population, especially the most vulnerable—children, the elderly, and those with chronic illnesses—will perish even if direct hostilities were to cease. This is the direct and inevitable consequence of the "conditions of life" that have been imposed.

Permanent displacement and demographic change: For the remaining population, survival inside a Gaza that has been rendered uninhabitable will become a practical impossibility. The complete lack of housing, clean water, food, healthcare, and economic activity will create immense and unbearable pressure for civilians to flee the land in order to survive. This outcome aligns directly with the legal definitions of forcible transfer and ethnic cleansing, as identified by human rights organizations. It is also the logical endpoint of a strategy that involves mass evacuation orders followed by the total destruction of the evacuated areas, and it serves as a necessary precondition for post-war plans that require an "emptied out" territory for foreign-led redevelopment.

The military campaign, therefore, should not be viewed merely as a precursor to a post-war settlement. Rather, it is actively creating the physical and demographic preconditions for a specific type of post-war reality—one that precludes the existence of a viable, self-governing Palestinian society in the Gaza Strip. The destruction is not an unfortunate obstacle to be overcome during reconstruction; it appears to be the first and most critical phase of a reconstruction model that requires a tabula rasa. This connects the seemingly separate phases of "war" and "post-war," revealing them as a continuous process. The objective is not simply to defeat a military opponent, but to physically and demographically re-engineer the Gaza Strip to make it amenable to a future state that serves external interests and permanently prevents Palestinian sovereignty. The evidence strongly suggests that the intended outcome of the current strategy is a Gaza Strip largely, if not entirely, devoid of its Palestinian population.

Some basic observations:

28% of children under five are actively malnourished.

IPC Phase 5 famine is officially confirmed in Gaza. 100% of the population is facing crisis level food insecurity.

Food distribution is being limited by the IDF and administered violently by US military contractors. https://youtu.be/uKpkZNAFwkc?si=4K3XeQmxbxF23tGO

The economy is completely dismantled.

63% of all buildings (including homes) have being destroyed. https://youtube.com/shorts/GLTurLL6lB0?si=AywZxmGTjhNa6zQv

90% of the population is displaced.

94% of hospitals are destroyed. The only remaining hospital is Nasser. https://youtu.be/mTqSq1xokeM?si=QAczyYx19jCbg3H5

Two weeks ago, journalists were targeted in an attack at Nasser hospital. Journalists are being targeted to scare them away and prevent what’s occurring from being shown to the world. https://youtu.be/xAK1w9r2J54?si=-ZvG-55KBKNZbqt9

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#715
post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder the same. It’s odd to see it still here given the low quality of the discussion. And it is flooded by mischaracterizations, misinformation, and one-sided hyperbolic takes. I wonder what the right space or format is to have debates like this but in an effective way, rather than sides trying to win.

However dismayed you are by the low quality of the discussion, I promise you it bothers us even more. It's awful. Not only that but whenever a thread like this appears, tomhow and I end up spending all day on it, which is by far the worst part of the job. I don't mean to complain—that would be grotesque, given the suffering that's going on—but rather to say how much easier it would be if HN did not discuss this or si…

Thank you for your service and not taking the easy way out. It means a lot.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#716
post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to shame PG for his elitist views. Now I celebrate his moral courage. One man cannot fix everything. Dear PG (I'm sure you don't read HN, but this is yet another echo), As I said on X, your own platform (YCombinator) is still full of hateful bigots who would censor/downvote even the mildest form of speaking against the genocide. Proof: this comment being downvoted. Downvoting as a mechanism is akin to censorsh…

> It's being abused. Downvoting on HN doesn’t go lower than -4. If it’s used as a method of censorship, and you care about internet points, then you practically have to post nothing else useful to make it work.

Downvoting moves the comment down the reply tree and greys it out making it harder to read. Flagging comments completely hides them from many users, especially when logged in. And flagging submissions sends them to oblivion.

So these methods are definitely used to suppress topics or opinions, for better or worse. But when it comes to genocide it's obvious that those committing it also have the power to abuse every mechanism available to suppress information and discussions condemning it.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#717
post #668

What charity can one donate to? I just can't stand just doing nothing anymore.

If you live in the United States, your greatest point of leverage may be to influence your elected government representatives to take action.

Israel cannot continue without the ongoing support of the US.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#718

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

[flagged]

You’re not being clever by questioning this, you’re just displaying ignorance of well stated definitions.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#719

I see a lot of comments here are about how other countries should react to this designation, rightfully so. I wonder also though, how Israel will react. Is this anything new for them?

I think at the moment a term like "genocide" is still floating free from the reality of what that term means. Here's an interview with a senior UNICEF worker: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NsAo2j6aih0 I think after that I can't imagine the question, "will this impact israel?" makes any sense. They're deliberately perpetrating a genocide. It's real. It's the deliberate and systematic murder of two million people. I…

There's no murder of two million. There's at most, according to Hamas itself, 60,000 dead out of which 10,000 were hamas militants. This is a regular ugly war.

If Israel wanted to kill two million, they could've done it already.

It seemingly doesn't matter how accurate Israel tried to be, they call genocide either way.

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