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EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

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Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#711

Post by Krasnol »

Aachen wrote: post #694
flohofwoe wrote: post #604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See that's the thing, you're trying to argue rationally ;) But the discussion around nuclear energy stopped being rational decades ago. On one side you have the old guard of the environmentalist movement which got started with anti-nuclear protests in the first place and then had their "I told you so" moment in 1986, and on the other side you have that new "nuclear grassroots movement" which tells me that nuclear pow…

> and on the other side you have that new "nuclear grassroots movement" which tells me that nuclear power is akshually completely safe, and even if an incident happens it's not doing any harm and btw those Chornobyl death numbers are completely overblown You're making it sound like anyone who's not against nuclear, thinks Chernobyl is overblown I've never heard that sentiment anywhere. (I'm sure you can find examples…

It is actually a very common trope.

The "grassroots"-Jesus, Michael Shellenberger, who dominates the arguments being spread by this movement, doesn't get tired to repeat it. He even had to comment on the TV Show Chernobyl:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/03/11...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/06/06...

There are many more. Just google Shellenbeger and Chernobyl.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#712

Post by amai »

m101 wrote: post #564
amai wrote: post #562

Clean, but not insurable. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economics_of_nuclear_power_pla...

It is not beyond insurance. https://gordianknotbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/nuke_... Insurance already insures extremely complicated industries.

The person who wrote that has a conflict of interest, because he developed a nuclear reactor:

"In 2011, Devanney shifted his attention to nuclear power. He formed a small team to develop a design that combined a high temperature, low pressure, liquid fuel reactor with his background in ship production. This became known as the ThorCon project. Devanney continues to serve as ThorCon's Chairman although the day to day operations of ThorCon have been turned over to younger, more capable hands."

https://gordianknotbook.com/author/

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#713

Post by sdfssdf »

pzo wrote: post #641
kolinko wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So far it was either the cheapest or the safest. Also, solar is now both cheaper and safer.

but it's not 24/7 and europe even worse in winter and fall. Solar is unrealistic to replace most energy usage [1]. In EU it's just less than 5% usage. In germany less than 6% usage. And wind is not a replacement either (less than 11% energy usage in germany). And just for comparison in france nuclear power plants provides 37% of energy [1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou...

A look at destatis tells me something else for Germany (in 2024): Solar has a share of 15 %, and wind 28 %. In total 57 % of the produced energy comes from renewable sources. (https://www.destatis.de/DE/Themen/Branchen-Unternehmen/Energ...)

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#714

Post by quentindemetz »

kolinko wrote: post #637
m101 wrote: post #561

I think a good exercise for the reader is to reflect on why they were ever against nuclear power in the first place. Nuclear power was always the greenest, most climate friendly, safest, cheapest (save for what we do to ourselves), most energy dense, most long lasting, option.

So far it was either the cheapest or the safest. Also, solar is now both cheaper and safer.

Not at night

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#716

Post by m101 »

LinXitoW wrote: post #631
m101 wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cheapest form of energy is firing up a recently closed nuclear power plant. What they are doing is beyond reason.

This is just utterly and completely wrong. EVEN THE COMPANIES THEMSELVES say it would be stupid to reopen those plants. And, of course, the idea that "dependence" on Russia is bad, but replacing it with dependence on other states AND with building a bunch of nuclear bombs in my backyard that are PRIME targets to literally take out my entire grid, is laughably bad.

Except many nuclear plants around the world are doing this..

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#717

Post by m101 »

LinXitoW wrote: post #629
m101 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is expensive because we choose to make it expensive. It is regulation pushing safety levels far beyond other industries, and far beyond science (radiation is far less harmful than regulatory models suggest)

You do NOT get to constantly taut the low mortality rates of nuclear AND call for less regulation at the same time. But even from a very matter of fact point of view, I'd rather have 1000 people die every year for 20 years, than have 20.000 people die on a single bad day/week. The economic and social impact is far, far bigger when it can't be "spread out" over multiple years.

Do you even know anything about the relative death rates historically? You should look it up.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#718

Post by m101 »

amai wrote: post #712
m101 wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not beyond insurance. https://gordianknotbook.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/05/nuke_... Insurance already insures extremely complicated industries.

The person who wrote that has a conflict of interest, because he developed a nuclear reactor: "In 2011, Devanney shifted his attention to nuclear power. He formed a small team to develop a design that combined a high temperature, low pressure, liquid fuel reactor with his background in ship production. This became known as the ThorCon project. Devanney continues to serve as ThorCon's Chairman although the day to day…

Or he knows what he's talking about. Could be either but you've chosen the reason that supports your perspective. I appreciate that he may be conflicted.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#719

Post by gnatolf »

pzo wrote: post #703
gnatolf wrote: post #667

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'recyclable' is such a vague term. E.g. radiation-affected typically easily recycled materials are very hard to deal with (think e.g. pipe steel from power plants) and are effectively non-recyclable, instead of close to 100% recyclable, as their non-contaminated counterparts. Opposed to that, battery recycling is mostly hard to deal with in terms of economics, and admittedly the chemistry involved is complex, but at…

I'm talking about wind turbine wings. A lot of stuff is fiberglass and have to be buried.

Yea, I know. Their volume may look impressive, the actual amount of material is quite small and 'burying' that absolutely non-toxic stuff isn't any problem.
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