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We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

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Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#711

Post by phowat »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

Frankly I think it's a lost cause and sadly doesn't make sense to waste energy on it anymore. I eventually abandoned my de-googled phone exactly because I couldn't use my bank with it.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#712

Post by rahimnathwani »

tqwhite wrote: post #696
Nextgrid wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

I have exactly one to choose from. Two thirds of americans households have exactly two, exactly the same number as the count of googles and apples.

Two thirds of Americans could connect to the internet via:

- Starlink

- AT&T wireless

- T-Mobile wireless

- Verizon wireless

The choices of fixed ISPs is often more limited (in my area, the physical options are AT&T copper, Xfinity cable, Monkeybrains wireless).

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#713

Post by komali2 »

josephg wrote: post #626
komali2 wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument doesn't contradict the article. An expensive iPhone ships with iOS and a rigid security model. If you tap the `about` button 16 times and click a confirmation dialog, you disable certain security mechanisms against arbitrary software installation. Do something else easy but impossible to do accidentally, and you unlock the bootloader. You progressively lose portions of your warranty in doing so. This is…

Citation please? It’s my understanding that there is no officially approved way to unlock an iPhone. They’ve had something like that for a long time on Android, and I think it’s a reasonable middle ground between making the platform open and closed. But as far as I know, Apple never did something like that on iOS.

That was my fictional proposal, I wasn't clear enough about that in my post.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#714

Post by pbd »

This reminds me of the early days of gaming consoles where modchips were a grey area. The iPhone jailbreaking exemption in DMCA was a rare win for user rights, but we've seen that precedent hasn't extended much beyond phones. The technical capability exists - it's purely policy/business decisions blocking it.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#715

Post by callc »

jackothy wrote: post #688
bluesign wrote: post #677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is kind of levels: "can't participate in society without a mobile phone" "can't participate in society without internet" "can't participate in society without google" not sure where is the logical correct threshold making it wrong. because we all accept maybe people not participating without internet.

Clearly the logical threshold is when a single private corporation becomes the gatekeeper to your life. The internet itself is decentralized so that's fine. Mobile phones as a concept is also fine.

Almost. Having access to the internet requires a device, or public computer if available. A just society would at least maintain ability to interact with all government services through in-person and through post office. Universal access.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#716

Post by carlosjobim »

ivanmontillam wrote: post #691
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

If you live outside the US, it's even worse with WhatsApp. If for whatever reason you dislike WhatsApp, you just can't also be a society's functioning member. Some companies have decided to deprecate email and phone support and only have a WhatsApp chat, potentially with AI slop. I've had to discontinue my services with some of these companies because of that. Even some government services are going through WhatsApp;…

I never do business with those kind of companies, and it's not any problem in my life. If you can't reach them by email or phone, then they don't get any money.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#717

Post by abustamam »

shawabawa3 wrote: post #650
kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

> If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged. Even more worrying is the inverse of this - if Google and/or Apple decide for whatever reason they don't want a relationship with you (aka they ban you for no reason) - you are completely screwed

Even if they ban you for a reason, you're screwed. Granted, the ban may have been warranted, but you're essentially put into a societal prison with no due process or recourse.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#718

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

kristov wrote: post #641

I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult. For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via…

If you think it's bad now, just wait until passkeys are ubiquitous and best practice is to only trust a small list of providers. The only way to prove you're human will be to prove that you're Google's human.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#719

Post by Retric »

jader201 wrote: post #673
Nextgrid wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

Depending on where you live, a lot of times you don’t many to choose from. Maybe 2-3, but sometimes only one with fast enough speeds that it becomes the only option.

Where?

Cellphone providers + Starlink mean there’s more than 3 options in basically every US home.

Re: We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

#720

Post by christina97 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #660
dataflow wrote: post #653

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?

You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.

My apartment, smack bang in the middle of Manhattan, has a single coax cable opened by Spectrum, and is the only option for me to get reliable internet connection. I have no choice but to (1) sign whatever their ToS are, (2) pay whatever they want to charge, and (3) have them do what they want with my metadata. I’ve decided it’s not the hill I want to die on, but no, I don’t have many ISPs to choose from.
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