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Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

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Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#711
post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I agree that the system shouldn't be creating so many billionaires. It's a flaw in the system. But Musk is among the best of them IMO and his contrarian position makes him essential, even if you disagree with him and his politics. There needs to be opposing forces among the elite or else we're sure to walk down the path of totalitarianism. I generally agree with Musk's politics but I wouldn't want all bil…

> I generally agree with Musk's politics Children are dying in Africa as a direct result of his actions right now. https://www.npr.org/sections/goats-and-soda/2025/04/14/g-s1-...

No, they're dying because of a global financial system which systematically steals from them by corrupting their governments into making decisions which benefit large western corporations at their expense, while depriving them of resource royalties and opportunities to work for themselves.

International trade agreements and political over-engineering of the global order are to blame.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#712
post #710

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't manufacturing more cars in the US also popular with the electorate?

1) not the point, that list of criticisms was a bad list of criticisms 2) whether anything that happened in the last month is going to promote more domestic manifacturing is quite dubious at best. As a quick excercise: - for almost every industry new factories would be needed to significantly increase domestic production - you are disencintivized to mix foreign and domestic materials if you plan to export (as you are…

>1) not the point, that list of criticisms was a bad list of criticisms

My claim was merely that the situation was analogous. So yes, it is the point, in my view.

There is a grey area where you can do things that the electorate may want, which also happen to benefit your cronies. This overall issue is more severe for big government types, since more largesse is getting handed out.

I'd additionally highlight your use of the term "relevant electorate". Which underscores that "cronies" and "voters" may be the same people.

Direct Tesla subsidies would probably be quite popular with Tesla workers. That's a relevant electorate. Would that therefore make direct Tesla subsidies defensible? That's what your argument seems to imply.

>2) whether anything that happened in the last month is going to promote more domestic manifacturing is quite dubious at best.

I suspect some of the items from the FEE list won't be particularly effective at their stated goal either. In general, people will disagree about the likely effectiveness of government programs. So I'm not sure "likely effectiveness" is a great way to check for favoritism.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#713

Let me make sure I understand this: the president is addressing the fentanyl state of emergency by tariffing imported vehicle parts from wherever?

No, tariffs are meant to bring manufacturing to the US. The whole fentanyl thing was just with Canada and Mexico as negotiating tool.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#714
post #66

I don't know if it's the same people but many of the comments here seem the opposite of the comments on EUs rules where people say they're targeting specific companies and comments say "no, the rules are such than all companies over a certain size are covered". If the rule is 85% domestic than any company can do it. I'm not saying the tariffs are good. Only that their point is to get things made domesticly

Just a coincidence that the only company that currently fits the criteria is Tesla then. Everyone else can start rearranging their supply chains and building new factories to comply. Easy peasy right? Be up and running in a few weeks, at most, right?

According to many other comments the title is misleading, everyone has to pay tariffs on the portion of the vehicle that is not US or a NAFTA member source. Besides all Tesla's sold in the US are manufactured in the US. There would be zero reason for Tesla to pay a tariff on anything but parts.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#715
post #591

I'm not sure even Tesla unambiguously qualifies here. Looking at the NHTSA part 583 list for 2025 [0], none of the Tesla vehicles have a "US" content higher than 75% (which I think includes Canada?). The highest is the base Kia EV6 at 80%. This seems to be coming from the Kogod manufacturing index. That's a more qualitative ranking that attempts to deal with things like corporate structures rather than just origin li…

I was expecting Hyundai to have a higher domestic content, actually. Culturally, they seem to prefer to be vertically integrated. I would expect something like the Santa Fe (produced in Alabama) to draw nearly all their parts from local partner and related firms (is "chaebol" an anti-trust term in the US?) and not import major parts like BMW does in Greer SC where engines are flown in on cargo 747s from Germany. I wo…

If Americans think Canada is the backdoor route for China into the US market, then why did Canada impose tariffs on BYD to align with US policy towards China made automobiles? Clearly actions mean nothing with the current administration.

Honestly, at this point I think Canada would be better off partnering with China. At least their tariff policies don't change from hour to hour. Canadian policy should be to rescind the tariffs on China made EVs going forward.

NAFTA was already killed off by 45. USMCA is being actively destroyed by 47. Canadians simply cannot trust the USA to be a reliable partner in anything now with present leadship.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#716

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe that you believe that, in the circumstance we're discussing. I obviously could list basically endless lies of any contemporary political administration. Before the country became so polarized there were common 'jokes' that weren't really jokes like, 'How do you know a politician is lying?' 'Because his lips are moving.'

This is whataboutism. Everyone lies, power corrupts, but degree does matter. Sen. Murphy's speech does a good job of enumerating the big ones. One possible benefit of all this is that the left is trying to clean house to distinguish itself. If that actually happens using the moment to get them to put in laws to enforce it staying that way would be nice. A lot of Democrats regret enshrining independent districting boa…

I think comparing the wrongs of one administration vs another is not really viable. This is in large part because of partisanship but another issue is that we all value different things, and have different worldviews. For instance gerrymandering is an interesting thing, but I think it's entirely political theater, because there's a simple completely self-serving solution.

First off imagine an ostensibly completely fair system where each district was somehow made up of a random person within a state. Contrary to intuition, you would have actually just created the most gerrymandered system imaginable, where a party with only 51% of approval within a state would end up with 100% of representative seats, winning each and every district by 51%.

So counter-intuitively you do intentionally want to pack voters of a similar type into certain districts to create a fair system, which leads to all sorts of weird things, including the "solution"! It turns out the most fair system is to intentionally gerrymander! If you let each party with at least e.g. 1% of the vote take their turn creating an intentionally gerrymandered district for themselves (you can only 'district' your own voters), the self-maximizing solution is to create a 51% district in your favor. But if you mathematically work this out, this actually creates a perfectly fair (as close as possible to x% voters = x% of seats) result in the end! I can give an example if you find this unbelievable.

So all the rhetoric about trying to solve gerrymandering is mostly just theater and gesturing. The solution I gave is not some huge secret, even if most people are not aware of it. The only argument against it is that x% voters = x% seats is not desirable, but I think that's a rather fringe view. Geographic stuff doesn't mean what it used to, especially when there's millions of voters per district.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't mean to imply that I believe they are excellent people who will take care of us all, nor that there is any illuminati cabal like that other ludicrous comment. I only mean to imply they are people who know how to get what they want, and are willing to do more or less anything. There is a new story that Amazon is going to overtly display the tarrif on every price. That is like 1% of the kind of thing I'm thinki…

You've missed the tail end of that story - Trump made an angry call to Bezos, presumably full of threats, after which Bezos announced that they weren't going to do that and totally never planned to.

Totally. But Bezos is leaving a lot of money on the table, and none of this makes political sense. Everyone goes down if things get more expensive. Meanwhile I'm imagining a Chrome plugin that shows you the pre-tariff prices on Amazon [rubs hands]

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is whataboutism. Everyone lies, power corrupts, but degree does matter. Sen. Murphy's speech does a good job of enumerating the big ones. One possible benefit of all this is that the left is trying to clean house to distinguish itself. If that actually happens using the moment to get them to put in laws to enforce it staying that way would be nice. A lot of Democrats regret enshrining independent districting boa…

I think comparing the wrongs of one administration vs another is not really viable. This is in large part because of partisanship but another issue is that we all value different things, and have different worldviews. For instance gerrymandering is an interesting thing, but I think it's entirely political theater, because there's a simple completely self-serving solution. First off imagine an ostensibly completely fa…

> I think comparing the wrongs of one administration vs another is not really viable.

Yet this is what we do at every election.

It is true that lies are about different things and have different impacts. People value different things. Lies are difficult to enumerate. Yet if person A says he ate 99 jellybeans when he only ate 98 and person B says he ate 99 jellybeans when he actually ate your mother, we can safely say that person A's falsehood is sufficiently different from person B's that we would rather put A in charge than B.

You can make this abstract argument, but imagine you have two politicians, call them T(rump) and H(arris). You ask advocates for T and H to make lists of the others' politician's lies ranked from most to least egregious and present them for judgement to a third party who will make an effort, showing their work, to evaluate their truth. Neither party may be fully satisfied by this process, but one is going to look ridiculous much faster than the other. When the argument is particular, not abstract, it becomes much harder to sustain.

Throwing your hands in the air and giving up because we cannot calculate a numerical measure of honesty like we can digits of pi is silly, because we still have to make decisions based on imperfect information. Claiming one must do this -- give up on evaluating honesty -- while still advocating for a particular candidate or policy is itself dishonest: you clearly do not believe your own argument but propound it in the hopes that others will and will then withdraw from the debate.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think comparing the wrongs of one administration vs another is not really viable. This is in large part because of partisanship but another issue is that we all value different things, and have different worldviews. For instance gerrymandering is an interesting thing, but I think it's entirely political theater, because there's a simple completely self-serving solution. First off imagine an ostensibly completely fa…

> I think comparing the wrongs of one administration vs another is not really viable. Yet this is what we do at every election. It is true that lies are about different things and have different impacts. People value different things. Lies are difficult to enumerate. Yet if person A says he ate 99 jellybeans when he only ate 98 and person B says he ate 99 jellybeans when he actually ate your mother, we can safely say…

The point is that the example of 98 beans vs eating somebody's mother is obviously nothing like what we have in reality. We have different scales of offenses, many extremely serious in character, but there is no administration has been even remotely likely ethical and above board perhaps since JFK.

And the issue you're not considering is that we all subconsciously, if not consciously, discount the wrongs of those we prefer while blowing up the wrongs of those we dislike. I hate to use contemporary examples, because it's still so emotionally charged for most people - but I think there's too perfect an example not to here, and we've probably scared off everybody else by having responses with more than 100 words anyhow.

The last administration essentially turned the White House into the latest remake of Weekend at (B)ernie's. And they did this in complete collusive coordination with the media, and aggressively attacked and defamed anybody who tried to call them out on it. A person who fancied that administration is largely going to discount this because in the end the arguable net result was not much more than that advisors in that administration ended up playing a much more executive role than they would normally have.

But if you look at it from another person's perspective, it was a complete undermining of democracy that emphasized that the "independent" media is functionally identical to what we pejoratively refer to as state media in adversarial countries. And the response to people saying and seeing what was happening before their eyes (as, for instance, when the President would wander about in a senile stupor) was nothing short of 1984 - "The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command."

One person's molehill is another's mountain, and vice versa.

Re: Only Teslas exempt from new auto tariffs thanks to 85% domestic content rule

#720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While they are interventionist in some way, so is everybody else. The US government involvement in housing is gigantic as well. We can learn a lot from the policies, both free market and otherwise. And we shouldn't learn from others. No free market person thinks of Singapore as some prefect example. As that doesn't exist. So you have to take example from different places. And Singapore has more good examples then mos…

> The US government involvement in housing is gigantic as well. Sure, from a financial perspective, particularly around mortgages. Singapore owns the HDB, which owns the leasing rights to 80%+ of all residential property and almost all land in the country. Issuing 99 year leases to citizens and PRs. Imagine if the US government owned all land rights, built virtually all apartments and instigated racial quotas to matc…

First of all, I do know the difference between Singapore and the US. But my statement is true anyway. I wasn't drawing a direct equivalence of housing policy.

The person above pointed out that Singpore, is #1 on the "Index of Economic Freedom" and the rank high in other such indexes.

Housing policy in regards to ownership maybe a counterpoint to that, but we are not looking at individual policy but the at everything.

If you want to dispute the claim that Singpore is not 'free market' at all, then please direct me to an index with better methodology in that regard.

> Sure, from a financial perspective, particularly around mortgages.

That to, but that's not primary what I am talking about.

No I'm talking about zoning and many, many, many other types of regulation. Plus of course, tax code and many other things.

Typically new land for a city is rezoned, then a developer comes in, build there and often inherits the infrastructure to the city to maintain. Then the city collects some property tax from that.

That is different then the Singapore model but its also a gigantic intervention in pretty much every aspect of the housing market.

Not to mention the government hold many plots of lands that could be developed. The government owns quite a lot of land.

The direct ownership is only one aspect, what you can do is another.

And as I said, I'm not disputing that in such a ranking, their land and housing policy could be considered as a negative compared to the US.

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