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Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

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Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Incompetence is way more dangerous than people realize. These tariffs are China's Four Pests campaign. Mao, a very trump like figure, decided to protect Chinese crops by destroying sparrows that were picking at them. Killing sparrows killed a predator of insects which did more damage to crops. This coupled with reality denying policies and ignoring experts led to one of the most devastating famines the world has ever…

People are so desperate for this to be rational. Which itself is entirely irrational given the information at hand.

It could be a very straightforward dump and pump scam, as well. We know this admin isn’t above petty monetary graft.

It seems to be the simplest possible explanation, too. Then again, never attribute to malice…

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#712

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

> Instead of being seen as a safe haven, U.S. debt itself started to look shaky There's also a more basic answer to why US debt got more expensive. There is no such thing as a "trade deficit". You cannot import something without exporting something else. That something else, in almost 100% of the situations, is dollars. What do you do with dollars, if there's nothing you want to buy? You buy debt. So, every trade def…

The real issue is people are still treating this reactionary buffoonery as if it's a trade policy that warrants critique. It isn't. Trump is a fucking idiot and he has surrounded himself with other fucking idiots and they and the reactionary base of fucking idiots they've created are cheering him on for doing fucking idiot things.

A journalist successfully reverse-engineered the likely formula used to arrive at the figures for each nation, and it's not only implemented stupidly, it's also wrong from first principles. It's the same thing an actual school child might come up with if you asked them to. This is the same kind of "economic policy" cooked up by dumbasses on reddit who sincerely believe they are qualified to "fix US trade."

If our congress wasn't also packed full of ineffectual liberals and other fucking idiots, he'd be impeached by now for sheer incompetence.

It's the same issue we had in the last Trump admin. This nonsense is elevated to undue credibility by serious people discussing it seriously. It shouldn't be debated, it should be mocked, relentlessly, mercilessly, cruelly. As should Trump himself, as should his supporters, as should his sycophantic followers. Mock, belittle, make fun of, bully, parody, just continuously until every single one of these people refuses to approach a microphone.

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#713

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

I find the most consistent explanation for Donald Trump is he does whatever is going to keep himself the top news story in the media. I don't think there's any deeply held belief other than if he doesn't think people are talking about him that's bad

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#714
post #481

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

Genuinely wondering why so many people are still giving the Trump administration this much benefit of the doubt that their moves are strategically sound? We're really still doing the whole "3D chess" thing with this guy after he has shown over and over again that he mostly just acts on impulse and the primary qualification for his advisors is loyalty over any type of intelligence or expertise?

> Genuinely wondering why so many people are still giving the Trump administration this much benefit of the doubt that their moves are strategically sound?

Since I'm one of 'those people' who's been willing to grant Trump some benefit of the doubt in the past, I'll respond with my take. tl;dr Trump's handling of the tariffs have been such disaster, there's simply no possibility it was based on a strategically sound plan. So, in answer to your question, this episode has caused me to substantially foreclose my prior willingness to grant Trump some benefit of the doubt.

To be clear, while I've tried to remain open-minded re: Trump I've never felt that he's especially smart and certainly not someone I'd ever personally like or hang out with but I'm also one of those contrarians who doesn't think every politician or public figure needs to be someone I personally like or approve of in a moral sense. I've also been willing to concede that some things done by the executive branch during his first term were generally positive (whether because of or in spite of Trump isn't clear). I also think his policies and statements have been subject to an unprecedented degree of negative spin in the media - sometimes well-deserved but always hyped overwhelmingly to the negative. So I made an effort to look past the constant headlines of, essentially, "orange man bad in all possible ways." I also decided to ignore Trump's own bizarrely extreme pronouncements and focus only on what he really put into practice and, most importantly, the tangible real-world impact of those actions on the broad population and economy over time (not the extrapolated predictions in the media).

However, even to me, how he's handled this tariff thing has been a complete shit show. I've spent a fair bit of time trying to understand the various explanations, contextualizations and even 'hidden grand plan' theories proposed by some and they simply aren't plausible. It's not a 'master negotiator strategy' because he asked for concessions but never made any concrete proposals of quid pro quo. There was no attempt at serious negotiation with most major trading partners (according to the WSJ) and thus no possibility of meaningful deals.

Now suddenly (somewhat) reversing course like this a few days after going so extreme and then publicly doubling down on his long-term commitment to the 'grand strategy' is unbelievably damaging to any remaining shred of credibility his administration may have had. It nukes any possibility that he was doing a 'crazy guy on the subway' strategy of punching his adversaries in the face and making them believe he was so nuts he'd saw off his own arm just to keep beating them over the head with it - all to cleverly convince them to make meaningful concessions they'd never make any other way. Yeah, well now that he blinked in less than a week, nothing he can do will ever make them believe that. I mean, if that was the plan, it was a terrible plan and poorly executed to boot, but flipping like this is even worse.

All I can figure is that it was a 'crazy guy' plan but that he intended to keep it going for several months and then, when his opponents were bloodied enough he'd open negotiations and "win" in a master stroke. Except he completely miscalculated the degree of economic destruction he'd cause in U.S. markets and has now had to not only fold but reveal he was playing a weak bluff all along. I'm struggling to come up with any way this could have been worse for the U.S. and Trump's interests. After this, it's hard to imagine any trading partner negotiating in good faith, or perhaps, at all with Trump over tariffs in the next 90 days. The only rational strategy for them is to play along and gather info while conceding nothing meaningful and simply wait and see what Trump's ultimately going to do long term.

As far as I'm concerned, I bent over backward to grant Trump some benefit of the doubt and give him a chance to prove himself but the tariffs have been so bungled they're impossible to put it in any positive light. So far, it appears to be an epic disaster of hubris and naive miscalculation.

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#715

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

I am extremely skeptical that a president and a party that massively increase the national debt every time they hold unified control, and whose single legislative goal this year is to do exactly that once again, is engaging in a sophisticated conspiracy to lower interest payments. If Trump and the GOP actually cared about the debt payments they wouldn't be arguing about how many trillions of dollars to add to it this year.

The much more likely scenario is that this is exactly what it looks like: an incompetent and corrupt president flailing around. Tariffs are an excellent tool for soliciting bribes since there are any number of ways various groups can be exempted, and this type of abuse has often happened historically. The ham-fisted way they have been implemented has done a great job of getting Trump attention. I've never seen anything to make me think that Trump cares more about the long term health of the country over getting bribes and attention for himself.

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#716

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

> Because when your national budget depends on cheap debt, you can't afford a crisis of confidence in your bonds.

True. The odd thing is that the previous tariffs announcements on supposed allies, plus all the other sabre-rattling that Trump has been doing, NATO-bashing, flipping on Ukraine, etc., had already triggered a crisis of confidence. So what did they expect? That unexpectedly unleashing of wildly unreasonable and poorly-calculated tariffs would inspire _more_ confidence? If getting investors to flock to T-bills was the goal, it was always bound to fail. (It only worked in the short term because T-bills are the default in a time of market uncertainty; but when it became clear that the uncertainty was caused not by the market, but by the government's behavior, well then T-bills don't look so good anymore).

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen relatively little discussion about these lawsuits, but I do think there is a pretty good chance that SCOTUS will rule these tariffs unconstitutional. (It's certainly more likely than Congress rescinding the powers they've ceded to the presidency.) Constitutionally, the power to set tariffs resides with the Legislative branch, not the Executive branch. Congress has delegated some authority to set tariffs und…

It is a sound analysis but I think there are other non-legal factors at play. If the president tries to do X, then the lawyers block X, then in political game theory the president "wins" in the eyes of the electorate because the president can argue "my plan was perfect, the execution failed due to the opposition, so I am not accountable to what has now happened". The left might want to see a disaster play out to capi…

The people on the left who want to see a disaster play out are mostly accelerationists. I think most on the left would worry more about the harm that economic disaster would be inflicted on people.

And more pragmatically, I think that Trump is so committed to causing disasters that he's likely to succeed at enough of his attempts that there should be pushback to as much of it as possible.

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#718

"It’s the T-bills wot dun it." That’s my read on why the U.S. just paused the global tariff hike to 10%. From the beginning, I’ve believed the executive branch's real goal was to push down the yield on the 10-year Treasury. Why? Because Uncle Sam has to refinance a mountain of debt this year, and the cost of that depends heavily on Treasury yields — especially the 10-year. That’s the rate that sets the tone for every…

> Instead of being seen as a safe haven, U.S. debt itself started to look shaky There's also a more basic answer to why US debt got more expensive. There is no such thing as a "trade deficit". You cannot import something without exporting something else. That something else, in almost 100% of the situations, is dollars. What do you do with dollars, if there's nothing you want to buy? You buy debt. So, every trade def…

> We have long known that government debt is proportional to trade deficits.

And so far we've been cool with that because it:

- continues to make the USD the dominant global reserve currency, strengthening our economic and political clout

- allows us to borrow cheaply to finance our military and whatever else we're spending $ on

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#719
post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still wonder why this was not done instantly by EU. US has an imbalance on goods that was used to calculate the tariff amount, but it has the opposite imbalance on service from what I've read

It would be a just a hefty fee for most EU companies and not much more. From what I've seen Azure is pretty popular in most bigger companies and smaller shops and websites use often AWS or Google cloud. Microsoft Windows and Office is also everywhere - it would be a tax on European business with little effects on the USA because moving away from big clouds won't happen because there is no realistic alternative. Last…

It seems to me that replacing foreign computer services is actually easy compared to physical goods: no need to build factories, no need to buy expensive machinery etc, just wrap some open source solution and sell it. For example, China has domestic computer services, from messengers to AI models. And by observation, once you ban foreign services, local competitors start appearing like mushrooms after rain.

Re: Trump temporarily drops tariffs to 10% for most countries

#720
post #358

My takeaway from what I've read and heard in the last few weeks is that his only actual motivation is to 'win'. He bragged yesterday that other countries are kissing his ass to negotiate deals on the tariffs. I think that was all he wanted, I think he now thinks that this whole tariff thing was a success and he's going to move on to the next crazy idea. The rest of us suffer for it, except for the sad portion of the…

He also bragged that the tariffs bring 2 billions a day and the crowd cheered. They do realize who pays that 2 billions?

The answer to that is far more complex than you realize. Tariffs generally force export-driven countries to devalue their currencies.
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