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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#711

Post by woooooo »

dcow wrote: post #686
hayst4ck wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth and even the idea that there is objective truth is a fundamentally political concept. Authoritarians are opposed to the idea of objective truth because objective truth gives a person a foundation on which to criticize and dissent from those in power. Truth is threatening to authoritarians. Truth is an alternative source of legitimacy. We are experiencing an assault on objective truth in the US in order to get s…

I don’t agree with the framing of “we are experiencing an assault on objective truth…”. We are experiencing a challenge to some existing status quo practices, some of which have come out of science in the past. But nowhere in any conversation has the dialog been “we must question status quo institutional knowledge, and objective truth, to dismantle the institution”. (That’s left speak, actually, and I am acutely awar…

RFK Jr brought roadkill home to cook and eat multiple times.

Occam's Razor says he is a crank.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#712

Post by madeofpalk »

__s wrote: post #703
themgt wrote: post #670

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What needs to stop happening is people ignoring objective reality just because the results happen to align with the other "team's" position on something. "Out of a population of about three-quarters of a billion, under 14 million people (approximately 2%) in Europe receive artificially-fluoridated water." The problem I continually see in the USA is the ascription of differences of opinion on [any topic] to America's…

Fluorinated table salt. Naturally fluorinated water sources. Public healthcare that covers dental European policy isn't based on modern fluoridation being dangerous, it's based on having alternative systems in place (which vary by country) In Windsor Ontario, across from Detroit, they took fluoride out of water for nearly a decade before reversing that decision based on results: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor…

Look - all for whatever science says is best, but wouldn’t countries with public healthcare also be incentivised to have fluoride in the water to reduce costs/public efficiency of public dental healthcare?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#713

Post by VincentEvans »

themgt wrote: post #670
lee_ars wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, it completely ignores any debate over effectiveness or side effects. It could well be that fluoride in water is great for teeth but bad for brains. Except it's not—fluoride in the drinking water concentrations is proven safe and it doesn't affect brains. > Im not clear the validity of those claims Thoroughly scientifically debunked. Repeatedly, over decades. > That seems the core issue- without bias from st…

What needs to stop happening is people ignoring objective reality just because the results happen to align with the other "team's" position on something. "Out of a population of about three-quarters of a billion, under 14 million people (approximately 2%) in Europe receive artificially-fluoridated water." The problem I continually see in the USA is the ascription of differences of opinion on [any topic] to America's…

When you watch any British tv the first thing you notice is teeth indeed.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#714

Post by thatcat »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Fluoride has to be applied to the surface at a high concentration for brief contact time to be effective. What is the freedom to sell industrial waste to the government to pointlessly add to the water supply for profit called?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#715

Post by rashkov »

dcow wrote: post #686
hayst4ck wrote: post #668

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Truth and even the idea that there is objective truth is a fundamentally political concept. Authoritarians are opposed to the idea of objective truth because objective truth gives a person a foundation on which to criticize and dissent from those in power. Truth is threatening to authoritarians. Truth is an alternative source of legitimacy. We are experiencing an assault on objective truth in the US in order to get s…

I don’t agree with the framing of “we are experiencing an assault on objective truth…”. We are experiencing a challenge to some existing status quo practices, some of which have come out of science in the past. But nowhere in any conversation has the dialog been “we must question status quo institutional knowledge, and objective truth, to dismantle the institution”. (That’s left speak, actually, and I am acutely awar…

Zoom out and you’ll see that there is a broad attack against science institutions going on right now. RFK is just one aspect.

NIH funding down 60% compared with one year ago: https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/03/report-us-scientists-...

UMass disbands its entering biomed graduate class over Trump funding chaos: https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/03/umass-disbands-its-en...

Not to mention the defunding of anything to do with climate change.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#716

Post by dcow »

hayst4ck wrote: post #704
dcow wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with the framing of “we are experiencing an assault on objective truth…”. We are experiencing a challenge to some existing status quo practices, some of which have come out of science in the past. But nowhere in any conversation has the dialog been “we must question status quo institutional knowledge, and objective truth, to dismantle the institution”. (That’s left speak, actually, and I am acutely awar…

The fluoride thing alone wouldn't even move the needle or be too worth talking about on its own, but when you see everything that is happening and you know it's just the public things, it gives a distinctly different context around what is happening. You know we are overtly threatening Canadian sovereignty right? Countries are setting up travel warnings. Plain clothes officers have abducted people in public. People h…

What does Canadian sovereignty have to do with even a broader picture argument that the right is using illiberal science to undermine and dismantle political institutions?

“Anybody who wants to debate me must first demonstrate good faith by espousing my political stance before we can continue.” Really now…

People can’t be in denial about something that isn't happening. That’s called crazy.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#717

Post by [deleted] »

InsideOutSanta wrote: post #525
lionkor wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Americans consume enough tap water for this to be beneficial?

About 60% of bottled water in the US is sourced from municipal tap water systems: https://www.nyruralwater.org/news/study-shows-nearly-64-bott...

[deleted]

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#718

Post by dcow »

woooooo wrote: post #711
dcow wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with the framing of “we are experiencing an assault on objective truth…”. We are experiencing a challenge to some existing status quo practices, some of which have come out of science in the past. But nowhere in any conversation has the dialog been “we must question status quo institutional knowledge, and objective truth, to dismantle the institution”. (That’s left speak, actually, and I am acutely awar…

RFK Jr brought roadkill home to cook and eat multiple times. Occam's Razor says he is a crank.

Sure! Which means he’s either a really effective covert operative, or just a crank. To be clear I’m not arguing in support of crack science. I’m arguing against him being plugged into some broader insidious agenda.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#719

Post by SigmundA »

naasking wrote: post #677
lee_ars wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Second, it completely ignores any debate over effectiveness or side effects. It could well be that fluoride in water is great for teeth but bad for brains. Except it's not—fluoride in the drinking water concentrations is proven safe and it doesn't affect brains. > Im not clear the validity of those claims Thoroughly scientifically debunked. Repeatedly, over decades. > That seems the core issue- without bias from st…

> Except it's not—fluoride in the drinking water concentrations is proven safe and it doesn't affect brains. You mean like this: Fluoride Exposure and Children’s IQ Scores A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis, https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/... "Findings: Despite differences in exposure and outcome measures and risk of bias across studies, and when using group-level and individual-level…

That is not a study of drinking water concentrations, but much higher naturally occurring levels. Its also has pretty poor confidence intervals:

https://journalistsresource.org/home/how-to-read-this-study-...

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/article-abst...

I would be careful throwing a single study around as proof of anything, here is one with a different conclusion:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/00220345241299...

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#720

Post by dcow »

rashkov wrote: post #715
dcow wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t agree with the framing of “we are experiencing an assault on objective truth…”. We are experiencing a challenge to some existing status quo practices, some of which have come out of science in the past. But nowhere in any conversation has the dialog been “we must question status quo institutional knowledge, and objective truth, to dismantle the institution”. (That’s left speak, actually, and I am acutely awar…

Zoom out and you’ll see that there is a broad attack against science institutions going on right now. RFK is just one aspect. NIH funding down 60% compared with one year ago: https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/03/report-us-scientists-... UMass disbands its entering biomed graduate class over Trump funding chaos: https://arstechnica.com/health/2025/03/umass-disbands-its-en... Not to mention the defunding of anything…

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