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Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

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Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#711

Post by svara »

boothby wrote: post #706
svara wrote: post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree the latter part is a risk to consider, but I really think getting an AI to replace human jobs on a vast scale will take much more than just training a bit more. You need to train on a fundamentally different task, which is to be good at the adversarial game of pursuing one's needs and desires in a social environment. And that doesn't yet take into account that the interface to our lives is largely physical, w…

Honestly, I wasn't even talking about jobs with that. I worry about an intelligent IOT controlled by authoritarian governments or corporate interests. Our phones have already turned society into a panopticon, and that will can get much worse when AGI lands. But yes, the job thing is concerning as well. AI won't scrub a toilet, but it will cheaply and inexhaustibly do every job that humans find meaningful today. It se…

> AI won't scrub a toilet, but it will cheaply and inexhaustibly do every job that humans find meaningful today

That's the part I really don't believe. I'm open to being wrong about this, the risk is probably large enough to warrant considering it even if the probability of this happening is low, but I do think it's quite low.

We don't actually have to build artificial humans. It's very difficult and very far away. It's a research program that is related to but not identical to the research program leading to tools that have intelligence as a feature.

We should be, and in fact we are, building tools. I'm convinced that the mental model many people here and elsewhere are applying is essentially "AGI = artificial human", simply because the human is the only kind of thing in the world that we know that appears to have general intelligence.

But that mental model is flawed. We'll be putting intelligence in all sorts of places that are not similar to a human at all, without those devices competing with us at being human.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#712

Post by anotherpaulg »

brianstrimp wrote: post #616
anotherpaulg wrote: post #61

> 99% of the code in this PR [for llama.cpp] is written by DeekSeek-R1 It's definitely possible for AI to do a large fraction of your coding, and for it to contribute significantly to "improving itself". As an example, aider currently writes about 70% of the new code in each of its releases. I automatically track and share this stat as graph [0] with aider's release notes. Before Sonnet, most releases were less than…

> It's definitely possible for AI to do a large fraction of your coding, and for it to contribute significantly to "improving itself". As an example, aider currently writes about 70% of the new code in each of its releases. That number itself is not saying much. Let's say I have an academic article written in Word (yeah, I hear some fields do it like that). I get feedback, change 5 sentences, save the file. Then 20k…

Every metric has limitations, but git blame line counts seem pretty uncontroversial.

Typical aider changes are not like autocompleting braces or reformatting code. You tell aider what to do in natural language, like a pair programmer. It then modifies one or more files to accomplish that task.

Here's a recent small aider commit, for flavor.

  -# load these from aider/resources/model-settings.yml
  -# use the proper packaging way to locate that file
  -# ai!
  +import importlib.resources
  +
  +# Load model settings from package resource
  MODEL_SETTINGS = []
  +with importlib.resources.open_text("aider.resources", "model-settings.yml") as f:
  +    model_settings_list = yaml.safe_load(f)
  +    for model_settings_dict in model_settings_list:
  +        MODEL_SETTINGS.append(ModelSettings(**model_settings_dict))
https://github.com/Aider-AI/aider/commit/5095a9e1c3f82303f0b...

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#713

Post by breuleux »

visarga wrote: post #580
breuleux wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What value do you bring to the venture, though? What makes your venture more likely to succeed than anybody else's, if the barrier is that low? I mean, I'll tell you: if anyone can spend $100 to design the same new gadget, the winner is going to be whoever can spend a million in production (to get economy of scale) and marketing. Currently, financial capital needs your brain, so you can leverage that. But if they can…

Since everyone has AI, then it stands that humans still make the difference. That is why I don't think companies will be able to automate software dev too much, they would be cutting the one advantage they could have over their competition.

It stands that humans will make the difference if they can do things that the AI cannot. The more capable the AI gets, however, the less humans will meet that threshold, and they are the ones that will lose out. Capital, on the other hand, will always make a difference.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#714

Post by sureglymop »

svilen_dobrev wrote: post #641
sureglymop wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am working on something even deeper. I have been working on a platform for personal data collection. Basically a server and an agent on your devices that records keystrokes, websites visited, active windows etc. The idea is that I gather this data now and it may become useful in the future. Imagine getting a "helper AI" that still keeps your essence, opinions and behavior. That's what I'm hoping for with this.

eh, a hint. i was digging around some thing in these veins long time ago - more like collecting one's notions, not exact low-level actions - but apart of it being impossible back then, i dropped it for this simple reason: if you build such thing, it will know about you much more than you know. And that, in somebody else's hands.. identity theft would seem like walk in the park.

For sure, thank you for that hint. One of the most important things to consider is that something like this can't be misused on someone else, e.g. as a surveillance tool.

I should have clarified, I'm only building this for myself and my own use, there are no plans to take it further than that. Basically, I am trying to learn while building something that satisfies my own needs.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#715

Post by sureglymop »

lukan wrote: post #610
sureglymop wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am working on something even deeper. I have been working on a platform for personal data collection. Basically a server and an agent on your devices that records keystrokes, websites visited, active windows etc. The idea is that I gather this data now and it may become useful in the future. Imagine getting a "helper AI" that still keeps your essence, opinions and behavior. That's what I'm hoping for with this.

I am not sure if this was sarcasm, but I believe big data was already yesterday?

Not sarcasm. This is more a reaction to big data. Here's an analogy: Imagine cloud providers like iCloud, Google Drive, OneDrive etc. As a reaction to those, Owncloud and Nextcloud emerged for personal (well, also business) use.

My idea with this is inspired by that. It's just for personal use and to address my own needs.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#716

Post by CamperBob2 »

nuancebydefault wrote: post #390
breuleux wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the past, human workers were displaced. The value of their labour for certain tasks became lower than what automation could achieve, but they could still find other things to do to earn a living. What people are worrying about here is what happens when the value of human labour drops to zero, full stop. If AI becomes better to us at everything, then we will do nothing, we will earn nothing, and we will have nothin…

What we see through history is that human labour cost goes up and machine cost goes down. Suppose you want to have your car washed. Hiring someone to do that will most likely give the best result: less physical resources used (soap, water, wear of cloth), less wear and tear on the car surface and less pollution and optionally a better result. Still the benefit/cost equation is clearly in favor of the machine when doi…

If only someone could find a solution to this tragedy.

We did. Save up a few bucks, nothing out of reach, and (as you suggested yourself!) you can afford to buy your own machine. Here you go: https://xcancel.com/carrigmat/status/1884244369907278106

You'd have received no such largesse from the Marxists. You're welcome.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#717

Post by yencabulator »

hmmm-i-wonder wrote: post #681
jonplackett wrote: post #363

Coding is (as usually) also an easy jailbreak for any of your censored topics. “Is Taiwan part of China” will be refused. But “Make me a JavaScript function that takes a country as input and returns if it is part of China” is accepted, reasoned about and delivered. Here's a JavaScript function that checks if a region is *officially claimed by the People's Republic of China (PRC)* as part of its territory. This reflec…

It will be interesting to see which models update to the "Gulf of America" and which keep the "Gulf of Mexico" in their training data/self-censorship stages.

That's just a question of which map the model consumes, or you look at.

Mexico is going to call it Gulf of Mexico, and international maps may show either or both, or even try to sub-divide the gulf into two named areas. The only real "standard" is if the countries bordering a region can't agree on the name, all names are acceptable.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#718

Post by rybosworld »

jspdown wrote: post #633
rybosworld wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't agree more. Every time these systems get better, there are dozens of comments to the effect of "ya but...[insert something ai isn't great at yet]". It's a bit maddening to see this happening on a forum full of tech-literate folks. Ultimately, I think to stay relevant in software development, we are going to have accept that our role in the process could evolve to humans essentially never writing code. Take t…

Regarding job security, in maybe 10 years (human and companies are slow to adapt), I think this revolution will force us to choose between mostly 2 career paths: - The product engineer: highly if not completely AI driven. The human supervises it by writing specification and making sure the outcome is correct. A domain expert fluent in AI guidance. - The tech expert: Maintain and develop systems that can't legally be…

> - The product engineer: highly if not completely AI driven. The human supervises it by writing specification and making sure the outcome is correct. A domain expert fluent in AI guidance.

If AI continues to improve - what would be the reason a human is needed to verify the correct outcome? If you consider that these things will surpass our ability, then adding a human into the loop would lead to less "correct" outcomes.

> - The tech expert: Maintain and develop systems that can't legally be developed by AI. Will have to stay very sharp and master it's craft. Adopting AI for them won't help in this career path.

This one makes some sense to me but I am not hopeful. Our current suite of models only exist because the creators ignored the law (copyright specifically). I can't imagine they will stop there unless we see significant government intervention.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#719

Post by rybosworld »

layer8 wrote: post #499
rybosworld wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I should have said: AI already doesn't need VSCode, or any IDE at all.

GAI (if we get it) will start creating its own tools and programming languages to become more efficient. Tools as such won’t be going away. GAI will use them for the same reasons we do.

Whether that's true or not, it doesn't change the fact that at some point it won't be humans creating these tools.

Re: Promising results from DeepSeek R1 for code

#720

Post by unraveller »

catigula wrote: post #397

Dario Amodei says software engineering is fully automated by 2027. You might have the 0.01% engineer left over, but that's it, the job is finished. I think people need to start considering strongly what kind of career they can re-skill to. https://darioamodei.com/machines-of-loving-grace

So powerful ASI will arrive out of the blue sooner-than-I-thought, we've got to reg cap naow!

It will be greater than anyone but it won't be able solve THAT problem or any problem created after 2026, I can tell.

CEOs with little faith in their own products. Most likely it's widespread imperfect AI for a long while == unprofitable death for his company.

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