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TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

reuters.com

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Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#711

Post by lotsofpulp »

0xffff2 wrote: post #631
lotsofpulp wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably, the relevant factor here is not ownership on paper, but who has real control via being able to tell Bytedance employees (including the executives) what to do. Which, in this case, is assumed to be China’s government leaders.

Presumably, yes, but is that actually how it works? I think we need a primer on how Chinese companies are structured. What does it mean to own 60% of a company if that doesn't give you any real control over the company?

Control can be separated from who is owed what share of economic profits. For example, some Alphabet and Meta shares having more voting power than others.

On a more pragmatic level, even in the US "own" means what society will defend for you. However, the US (and other western countries) are presumed to have courts that have a higher probability of defending claims of ownership assuming you have the right paperwork. Whereas in places like China, it is presumed that your paperwork is less likely to entitle you to a defense.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#712

Post by hxegon »

some_random wrote: post #624
tnt128 wrote: post #614

Let’s be clear about one thing: it’s never about protecting the privacy of private citizens—that’s just the justification. Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. The U.S. has held a monopoly on this power, leveraging it to gather data on citizens worldwide and projecting our value systems onto others. Banning TikTok is simply an effort by us to main…

That's mostly true and it's a good thing for the US to prevent hostile, autocratic, foreign powers from gaining undue cultural power.

The US is a hostile autocratic power with undue cultural power on our own citizens, so even if it's a given that TikTok is mostly a propaganda platform (which I completely, categorically disagree with), wouldn't it be better to at least have a choice? Or be able to compare between them? You are speaking as if US citizens don't deserve/ aren't capable of making their own decisions which is about as autocratic as it gets.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#713

Post by bloopernova »

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri:

"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#714

Post by GlickWick »

bloopernova wrote: post #713

Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri: "As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would d…

There's nothing free-flow about TikTok, though. Like Twitter/X, Instagram, etc it's actually a carefully curated experience that can be tuned opaquely by whoever runs it to control the flow of information. The US took umbrage to this being in the direct hands of a foreign adversary.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#715

Post by BLKNSLVR »

tnt128 wrote: post #614

Let’s be clear about one thing: it’s never about protecting the privacy of private citizens—that’s just the justification. Social networking platforms are among the most effective tools for mass influence, second only to religion. The U.S. has held a monopoly on this power, leveraging it to gather data on citizens worldwide and projecting our value systems onto others. Banning TikTok is simply an effort by us to main…

Gives you some idea of the massive amount of data available to US authorities derived from the US domination of privacy invading services.

They know it's a threat because they wrote the book on it. That's also why we'll never get decent privacy legislation.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#716

Post by spacechild1 »

xxr wrote: post #451
jjulius wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>TikTok has such a culture of authenticity and realness... LMAO

"At this point, we have to accept that younger generations—precisely the people who have been raised on quantified audience feedback for their every creative gesture—have an unrecognizable conception of authenticity."[0] [0] https://kevinmunger.substack.com/p/in-the-belly-of-the-mrbea...

Thanks for that link! Really interesting.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#717

Post by mandmandam »

syspec wrote: post #454
Rebuff5007 wrote: post #439

I'm tearing my hair out... how is the solution here not just better data privacy laws? Doesn't that solve all the issues, both domestic and international?

Because it's not necessarily about the / data privacy/, it's about the ability of a foreign adversary to influence the American populous in subtle ways over time. By simply suppressing topics, or elevating trends they might find helpful in swaying the populous. That's what propaganda is and it works.

> it's about the ability of a foreign adversary

Hang on, 'foreign adversary'? Who makes all of America's stuff? Who sent so much of the jobs and manufacturing over there?

> to influence the American populous [sic] in subtle ways over time.

Eg, pointing out Israel's atrocities and how they lead right back to us, or about advantages of socialism compared to oligarchy.

Most other countries allow foreign media to be aired quite freely. Any 'subtle influence' is in a sea of other influences, and quite diluted.

Diverse media with free exchange of ideas leads to a populace with a chance of being informed. Restricting media to the US megacorps is obviously a terrible idea, no?

> That's what propaganda is and it works.

The solution to propaganda is to educate people and teach them critical thinking. However, that would damage the yacht class far too much.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#718

Post by postcert »

hxegon wrote: post #707

It's honestly wild how many people in these comments are defending some vague, unsubstantiated, paper thin national security scare vs recognizing this as a clear suppression of free speech and active stoking of xenophobia. I would genuinely rather drop ship the CCP my SSN/banking info than trust the US government to do something in favor of it's own people when there's lobbying money involved. Why are so many of you…

The most disheartening part of this ban is that it’s just about the only thing the government can agree on. IMO Mitt Romney slipped the truth in saying: “Some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians, relative to other social media sites — it's overwhelmingly so among TikTok broadcasts."

TikTok is the first and just about the only place I’ve seen content about corporate greed, the accelerating disappearance of the middle class and the real downstream effects of US foreign policy that hasn’t been whitewashed.

The ball is in China’s court now, if they can provide a space where this class consciousness can continue to grow they’ll easily get equal/better (though I think magnitudes greater) returns than Russia’s recent social campaigns.

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#719

Post by gschizas »

gretch wrote: post #501
palata wrote: post #79

Maybe the Chinese people will be able to teach the US people how to side-load APKs (on Android) and use a VPN. That would be ironic.

No it wouldn't be ironic because all of that is allowed. In fact, existing tiktok users are welcome to keep the existing app on their phone. What's being banned is the commerce.

In the article it's stated that TikTok will display a message to US users and the app will not work:

> Under TikTok's plan, people attempting to open the app will see a pop-up message directing them to a website with information about the ban

Re: TikTok preparing for U.S. shut-off on Sunday

#720

Post by theultdev »

postcert wrote: post #718
hxegon wrote: post #707

It's honestly wild how many people in these comments are defending some vague, unsubstantiated, paper thin national security scare vs recognizing this as a clear suppression of free speech and active stoking of xenophobia. I would genuinely rather drop ship the CCP my SSN/banking info than trust the US government to do something in favor of it's own people when there's lobbying money involved. Why are so many of you…

The most disheartening part of this ban is that it’s just about the only thing the government can agree on. IMO Mitt Romney slipped the truth in saying: “Some wonder why there was such overwhelming support for us to shut down potentially TikTok or other entities of that nature. If you look at the postings on TikTok and the number of mentions of Palestinians, relative to other social media sites — it's overwhelmingly…

> The ball is in China’s court now, if they can provide a space where this class consciousness can continue to grow they’ll easily get equal/better

We can hope the CCP's consciousness grows and they shutdown their concentration camps, stop organ harvesting, and start having elections.

The ball is in their court.

We can talk TikTok being allowed after that.

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