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Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

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Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#711
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you are saying that Nvidia will finally force USA to the 220V standard? :)

Many American homes already have 240V sockets (eg: NEMA 14-30) for running clothes dryers, car chargers, etc. These can provide over 7200W continuous power! I guess PC power supplies need to start adopting this standard.

PC power supplies already support 240V. Their connectors can take 120V or 240V.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#712
post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The U.S. has been 240V for over a century. It uses split phase which has opposite phases on each hot line to let you take one and connect it to neutral to get 120V. If you connect both hot lines, you get 240V. For some reason, people in Europe and other places are unaware of this despite this having been the case since electrification happened in the early 20th century.

Then you could also say that Europe uses 400 V. You get three-phase power with 230 V phases in your home, and high-powered appliances are often designed to use all three phases. But when people speak of voltages, they usually mean what you get from a typical socket.

This explains why a number of people in Europe seem to love the idea of having triple phase to DC on board chargers on electric cars, even though it makes more sense to have those at the charging points.

That said, a typical socket likely varies more in the U.S. than in Europe since anything that is high draw in the U.S. gets 240VAC while Europe's 220VAC likely suffices for that. I actually have experimented with running some of my computers off 240VAC. It was actually better than 120VAC since the AC to DC conversion is more efficient when stepping down from 240VAC. Sadly, 240VAC UPS units are pricy, so I terminated that in favor of 120VAC until I find a deal on a 240VAC UPS unit.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#713
post #711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many American homes already have 240V sockets (eg: NEMA 14-30) for running clothes dryers, car chargers, etc. These can provide over 7200W continuous power! I guess PC power supplies need to start adopting this standard.

PC power supplies already support 240V. Their connectors can take 120V or 240V.

Yes, but a standard household wall socket in the US supplies 120V @ 15A, for a max continuous power of 1.4 kW or so. So typical power supplies are only designed to draw up to that much power, or less.

If someone made a PC power supply designed to plug into a NEMA 14-50 you could run a lot of GPUs! And generate a lot of heat!

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rasterizing results in better graphics quality than DLSS if compute is not a limiting factor. Sure, but compute is a limiting factor.

I was demonstrating the Apples to Oranges comparison. If they were both free no one would pick DLSS. It shows Rasterizing is preferable. So comparing Rasterizing performance to DLSS performance is dishonest.

Except that if rendering was magically free... why not just pathtrace everything?

DLSS might not be as good as pure unlimited pathtracing, but for a given budget it might be better than rasterization alone.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#715

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4K alone is not enough to define spatial resolution. You also need take into account physical dimensions. DPI is a better way to describe spatial resolution. Anything better than 200 DPI is good, better than 300 is awesome. Unfortunately, there are no 4K displays with 200+ DPI on the market. If you want high DPI you either need pick glossy 5k@27" or go to 6k/8k.

of course "normal viewing distances" is always implied when talking about monitors. And if you REALLY want to get pedantic you need to talk about pixels per degree. The human eye can see about 60. according to the very handy site https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ a 27" 1080p screen has 37ppd at 2 feet. a 42" 4k screen has 51ppd at 2 feet. a 27" 8k screen has 147ppd at 2 feet which is just absurd. You have to get to 6 inc…

But a 42" 8K screen should have around ~100 ppd, which is really nice but not unnecessarily detailed.

I know I'll be gunning for the 42" 8K's whenever they actually reach a decent market price. Sigh, still too many years away.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#716
post #666

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Those standards are plumbing to connect things to the CPU. The last major innovations that Intel had in the CPU itself were implementing CISC in RISC with programmable microcode in the Pentium and SMT in the Pentium 4. Everything else has been fairly incremental and they were reliant on their process node advantage to stay on top. There was Itanium too, but that effort was a disaster. It likely caused Intel to stop i…

> AVX512 was that strategy’s zenith and it was a disaster for them since they had to cut clock speeds when AVX-512 operations ran while AMD was able to implement them without any apparent loss in clock speed. AMD up until zen 5 didn't have a full AVX-512 support so not exactly a fair comparison. Intel designs don't suffer from that issue AFAIU for couple of iterations already. But I agree with you, I always thought a…

AVX-512 is around a dozen different ISA extensions. AMD implemented the base AVX-512 and more with Zen 4. This was far more than Intel had implemented in skylake-X where their problems started. AMD added even more extensions with Zen 5, but they still do not have the full AVX-512 set of extensions implemented in a single CPU and neither does Intel. Intel never implemented every single AVX-512 extension in a single CPU:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVX-512#CPUs_with_AVX-512

It also took either 4 or 6 years for Intel to fix its downclocking issues, depending on whether you count Rocket Lake as fixing a problem that started in enterprise CPUs, or require Sapphire Rapids to have been released to consider the problem fixed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Vector_Extensions#Dow...

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#717
post #660
post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The 5090 TOPS number is with sparsity at 4bits, so it doubles the value compared to the 8bit sparse number for 4090. The real jump is 26%, at 28% higher power draw and 25% higher price. A dud indeed.

It really sucks. BTW, how did you find the statement? I cannot find it in any place.

I didn’t find it. I dug up the real/raw numbers and did the math.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't use a NEMA 14-30 to power a PC because 14-30 outlets are split-phase (that's why they have 4 prongs - 2 hot legs, shared neutral, shared ground). To my knowledge, the closest you'll get to split-phase in computing is connecting the redundant PSU in a server to a separate phase or a DC distribution system connected to a multi-phase rectifier, but those are both relegated to the datacenter. You could get an e…

If you installed a European outlet in a US home then it would be using the same split phase configuration that a NEMA 14-30 does. But many appliances will work just fine, so long as they can handle 60 Hz and don't actually require a distinct neutral and ground for safety reasons. Likewise NEMA 10-30, the predecessor to NEMA 14-30 which is still found in older homes, does not have a ground pin.

I thought the main purpose of providing the neutral line was to be able to power mixed 240V and 120V loads.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#719

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of a half gain: smoothness improved, latency same or slightly worse. By the way, I thought these AI things served to increase resolution, not frame rate. Why doesn't it work that way?

It's both. And it's going to continue until games are 100% and AI fever dream.

Right, I should have said "generate extra pixels in every frame, not interpolate whole frames". Doing the former also increases frame rate by reducing computation per pixel.

Re: Nvidia announces next-gen RTX 5090 and RTX 5080 GPUs

#720
post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And screwing gamers over by raising the prices by 2x. Fuck that.

Believe it or not, it's possible to be interested in both machine learning and videogames. That's ignoring the notion that it's somehow how screwing over gamers. Buy a fucking AMD card. They're great at gaming and you don't need CUDA anyways. Enjoy the long-term acceleration of GPU performance increases you're getting by the way. All that stuff comes from innovations made for workstation/DL setups.

Get an AMD GPU? Said no one ever.
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