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Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

bbc.com

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Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#711

Post by donatj »

jtbayly wrote: post #321

My grandmother had "Do Not Resuscitate” on her file, but it was not known (or ignored) by the medics who saved her. She was very happy to have been resuscitated, removed the order, and lived for years after that. I submit that not everybody that commits suicide (whether medically assisted or otherwise) would make the same decision if they it to do over again.

That's sort of my hesitation with the idea

> One hundred forty attempters (35.6%) were classified as wishing they had not made the attempt and being glad to be alive, 168 (42.7%) were classified as ambivalent, and 85 (21.6%) were classified as wishing the attempt had succeeded.

https://psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ajp.162.1...

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#713

Post by rightbyte »

dang wrote: post #707
rightbyte wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't add snark into a topic like this. It demeans the discussion, and we're all worse for that. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Ye sorry didn't mean to come out as snarky. There is this old man that get to watch a color movie before being put to death in the movie. I didn't mean the escavator scene in some sort of meme reference. More like some slippery slope argument.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#714

Post by tokioyoyo »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #606
tokioyoyo wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the neighbourhood in Canada with a lot of elder people. I mentioned in one of my previous comments as well, and MAiD is probably one of the best things that happened in our country in the past decade. I have distant relatives who took the MAiD way out (one because of the age, the other one terminal illness). It's not very uncommon to hear once every quarter in the coffee shop in my neighbourhood people chat…

I've been in many discussions over the decades about this--and I see a huge skew: those who have never seen someone have a bad death tend to think euthanasia is a bad thing, those that have had someone close die a bad death tend to have a recognition that there are situations worse than death.

Thank you, that has been my honest take as well. My grandma went through extreme dementia/Alzheimer's while she lived with us when I was a kid. I remember being worried about her state every day when both of my parents had to work. Remember hearing her passing out in the hallway and dragging her back to her bed when I was 13, before calling my mom. Before she got into that state, she was cheerful and mentioned how she didn’t want to lose her sanity ever. The day she passed away has been ingrained deep into my memory. I would never want my children to ever experience what I have felt during those days.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#715

Post by praptak »

lupire wrote: post #503
mrguyorama wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you know an ancestor with Alzheimer's or other generic "you just kinda decline" diseases, they "die" long before their heart stops beating. I haven't been able to talk to my grandfather, or hear his stories, or learn about him, or share anything with him, or even be a part of his life for at least 5 years now. He will probably be "alive" for another five years. He mostly just coasts through life. He doesn't really…

You feel now that you don't want it live like that, but how can you know what you would want, then ?

What does it have to do with anything? What I want for my future self now is obviously 1. having the choice and 2. reasonable care so that the choice isn't forced.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#716

Post by DanHulton »

Lewton wrote: post #701
DanHulton wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods. As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for some…

> Where they can't afford the medication, or no medication seems to work, or they have an addiction problem and there just isn't any way for them to get into a treatment program I would consider two of these absolutely monstrous reasons to assist someone in killing themselves. A broken society opting into killing its citizens because it can’t be arsed with fixing itself is next level evil

You're getting downvoted, but honestly, I agree with you.

That said, I don't have any actual insight into the process; I was just extemporizing. So if it sounds fucked up, that's because _I_ fucked up and didn't think long enough about circumstances where someone would be approved for MAID instead of offered other solutions. It's entirely possible and indeed likely that if you can't afford medication or treatment, there's options in place to get that to you instead of approving your MAID appointment.

Please don't judge Canada too harshly just because I misspoke. =)

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#717

Post by b3lvedere »

kstenerud wrote: post #698
DanHulton wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are sufficiently mentally ill and determined enough to die that you get through the MAID screening, counselling, information sessions, etc, then you are determined enough to die by other, messier, likely more painful, certainly more traumatizing to the people around you methods. As well, mental illness is not just a state of mind. Sure, there are stories where a failed suicide attempt was the catalyst for some…

My wife helped a friend die in Germany 10 years ago. He'd acquired some cyanide, which resulted in a long, protracted death because he took too much and vomited most of it up. It was messy, painful and traumatic, but she sat with him until the end. When someone is determined enough to die, they find a way.

Terrible to read he still suffered a lot. I hope your wife is ok.

I've read about four or five stories in my lifetime about people who assisted in aiding a dear friend. Most of them just stuffed a pillow in their face when they begged to end their very painful existence.

I've witnessesed my brother in law suffer immensly from cancer before he decided to end it all by assisted death. Near the end he was not human anymore for me. Just a body chock full of medicines constantly trying to survive as much as possible. I can't blame the cells trying to win that desperate war, but it was horrifying to watch him transition from a strong happy human to that state.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#719

Post by throwaway2037 »

flkiwi wrote: post #309
RandomThoughts3 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, my grand parents both died in their nineties and their last two years were really sad. It was not so much the physical decline but the mental one. At the end, while technically alive, so little of who they were as persons remained, they might as well have been dead. I fully understand someone in their 80s knowing the end is near choosing to leave on their own term.

My bio father (he was not a part of my life, which is important to note when you get to the end of this comment) lived to 89, for certain values of "lived". He had long ago exhausted his ability to support himself financially, he was blind, deaf, unable to get around town on his own, had substantial age-related mental health issues, as well as a litany of small but significant health issues. I cannot speak for him, b…

    > As an American, however, I expect to die like he did: poor, mostly alone, and in pain.
All you need is a "beer brewer's kit" - gas bottle, simple plastic bag, and hose from the tank. There is an Aussie guy who explains how it all works on YouTube.

Re: Assisted dying now accounts for one in 20 Canada deaths

#720

Post by Mikhail_Edoshin »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #197
Mikhail_Edoshin wrote: post #169

M. Scott Peck wrote a book about euthanasia long ago. I wonder if people still read Peck. “Denial of the soul,” that was the title. The foundational belief for euthanasia must be that there is no soul.

Why can't the foundational belief be that we have a soul that has been sundered from our Creator by The Enemy during a primordial Manichean duel and keeping it separate is the highest sin and only by returning it to where it properly belongs are doing good? It isn't like the only two options are "the Christian conception of a soul" and "the atheists rejection of the conception of a soul".

Imagine you walk down a road and see a small forest ahead and a group of people before that forest. They all talk about what is beyond the forest. They all tell different things. But this does not mean they are all equally right or equally wrong or that one may simply choose the version one likes best. There is something specific behind the forest and if everyone tells their own incompatible versions, then everyone is wrong or everyone but one. (Or maybe some of the versions are not that incompatible.)

If you sneak away, go through the forest and come back, you will see a very nuanced picture of who is saying what. For example you found a stream. Someone may not mention a stream, but from his tale you will see that he indeed was there, but in winter and missed the stream just a bit. Or someone may loudly claim there is a stream, but you will clearly see that the person never was there and is only trying to persuade you to buy a flask.

But if you never was there all these tales will look same to you. This guy says this and that guys says that; how to decide? Logically? But is it clearly impossible to merely take all those words, somehow analyze them and get a correct answer. The clues one should look for are not in the contents of the tale.

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