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Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

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Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#711

Post by stracer »

Wytwwww wrote: post #417
stracer wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea of another competitive GPU manufacturer is nice. But it is hard to bring into existence. Intel is not in a position to invest lots of money and sustained effort into products for which the market is captured and controlled by a much bigger and more competent company on top of its game. Not even AMD can get more market share, and they are much more competent in the GPU technology. Unless NVIDIA and AMD make s…

> maybe memory/solid state drives That's a very low margin and cyclical market since memory/SSDs are basically commodities. I don't think Intel would have any chance surviving in such a market they just have way to much bloat/R&D spending. Which is not a bad thing as long as you can produce better than products than the competition.

Yeah, but they can saturate fabs and provide income, which they need. Intel can't produce better CPU/GPU products than their competition now. Their design and manufacturing of CPUs has serious problems for years now. The big money in GPUs is already captured by NVIDIA, and it's hard to see how Intel can challenge that - people want NVIDIA and CUDA. So Intel should cut down and focus the remaining bloat and R&D spending on the areas where it's plausible they can get competitive in a reasonable time. That is CPUs, and maybe memory and SSDs - they have X-Point which was great, just marketed and priced wrong.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#712

Post by stracer »

tester756 wrote: post #428
stracer wrote: post #104

Too late, and it has a bad rep. This effort from Intel to sell discrete GPUs is just inertia from old aspirations, won't really help noticeably to save it, as there is not much money in it. Most probably the whole Intel ARC effort will be mothballed, and probably many more will.

"old aspirations" "there is not much money in it"? WTF?

There is not much money in it for Intel.

Intel tried to get into GPU-like products 14 years ago. They promote their consumer Arc GPUs since 2022, and still almost nobody wants them. Is there a datacenter Intel GPU that some business wants?

The big money is flowing NVIDIA's way, and even if Intel can make a GPU, it won't be able to divert a big part of the flow, similarly to AMD.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#713

Post by akimbostrawman »

philistine wrote: post #158
giobox wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure its been a sweet spot for a very long time for budget conscious gamers looking for best balance of price and frame rates, but 1440p optimized parts are nothing new. Both NVidia and AMD make parts that target 1440p display users too, and have done for years. Even previous Intel parts you can argue were tailored for 1080p/1440p use, given their comparative performance deficit at 4k etc. Assuming they retail at…

I'm baffled that PC gamers have decided that 1440p is the endgame for graphics. When I look at a 27-inch 1440p display, I see pixel edges everywhere. It's right at the edge of losing the visibility of individual pixels, since I can't perceive them at 27-inch 2160p, but not quite there yet for desktop distances. Time marches on, and I become ever more separated from gaming PC enthusiasts.

Its not the end game but most rather have more fps for high refresh rate on higher graphic setting than couple more pixel you won't notice unless you search for it and low fps and/or low graphic settings.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#714

Post by akimbostrawman »

bjoli wrote: post #591
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the Linux compatibility? I was tempted to do the same for my CentOS Stream Plex box.

Amazing. It is the first time I have plugged any gpu into my linux box and have it just work. I am never going back to anything else. My main computer uses an a750, and my jellyfin server uses an a310. No issues with linux. The server did not like the a310, but that is because it is an old dell t430 and it is unsupported hardware. The only thing I had to do was to tweak the fan curve so that it stopped going full til…

>It is the first time I have plugged any gpu into my linux box and have it just work

I guess before you used Nvidia because out of the box support for AMD has existed for ages.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#715

Post by ThatPlayer »

ziml77 wrote: post #664
ThatPlayer wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're on an Nvidia 4000 series DisplayPort is limited to 1.4, ~26 Gigabit/s. https://linustechtips.com/topic/729232-guide-to-display-cabl... is a calculator for bandwidth 4K@144 HDR is ~40 Gigabit/s. You can do better with compression, but I find Nvidia cards have an issue with compression enabled.

Interesting. I've been running my 4K monitor at 240Hz with HDR enabled for months and haven't had any issues with Display Stream Compression on my 4080.

For me it's a small issue with full screen (including borderless iirc) games causing the display to black out for a few seconds.

I don't think it's an issue until you notice. I only noticed because I toggle HDR for some games and at 1440p240hz, the difference is just enough to not need DSC

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#716

Post by fweimer »

knowitnone wrote: post #456
fweimer wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are products like this one: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/sku/232592/... As far as I understand it, it gives you 64 GiB of HBM per socket.

that's a CPU. We are talking about GPUs here for highly parallel matrix multiplication problems. 2 different beasts.

This CPU is a bit of a hybrid because it as integrated matrix multiplication accelerators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Matrix_Extensions

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#717

Post by ryao »

Sparkyte wrote: post #705
ryao wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the RTX 3090 and RTX A6000 (the non-Ada one). They both have 24 memory chips with a 384-bit memory bus, but one has 24GB of VRAM and the other has 48GB of VRAM. They both have two chips per channel. This breaks the 24GB VRAM limit that you claim to exist.

Nope it doesn't that is 12 channels 2 modules per channel each module at 2GB is the largest the chip gets and the cost of those drastically increase the cost. The problem you experience with GDDR6 and channels is width. You get higher in size but you'll never be able to fill the memory fast enough to be cost effective. Also why HBM exists. Lets say the top is 960GB/s for an A6000 for GPU memory. HBM3 is 3.35 TB/s. If…

> Nope it doesn't that is 12 channels 2 modules per channel each module at 2GB

You say nope and then proceed to say exactly what I said. When if the ICs are limited to 16Gbit density for now, the 24GB limit you mentioned was wrong, since you assumed single rank was the highest possible.

As for HBM, that is earmarked for their gaudi 3 line. There is no chance of it being put into a consumer product, as it would be like selling gold at pyrite pricing.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#718

Post by bjoli »

akimbostrawman wrote: post #714
bjoli wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazing. It is the first time I have plugged any gpu into my linux box and have it just work. I am never going back to anything else. My main computer uses an a750, and my jellyfin server uses an a310. No issues with linux. The server did not like the a310, but that is because it is an old dell t430 and it is unsupported hardware. The only thing I had to do was to tweak the fan curve so that it stopped going full til…

>It is the first time I have plugged any gpu into my linux box and have it just work I guess before you used Nvidia because out of the box support for AMD has existed for ages.

I havee had 2 cards. I had issue with both under linux.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#719

Post by Night_Thastus »

knowitnone wrote: post #459
Night_Thastus wrote: post #6

We'll have to wait for first-party benchmarks, but they seem decent so far. A 4060 equivalent $200-$250 isn't bad at all. for I'm curious if we'll get a B750 or B770 and how they'll perform. At the very least, it's nice to have some decent BUDGET cards now. The ~$200 segment has been totally dead for years. I have a feeling Intel is losing a fair chunk of $ on each card though, just to enter the market.

I don't know the numbers but the manufacture of the chip and the cards can't be that expensive...the design was probably much more expensive. Hopefully they are at least breaking even but hopefully making money. Nobody goes into business to lose money. Shareholders would be pissed!

>Nobody goes into business to lose money. Shareholders would be pissed!

Uh...yes they do? I mean, look at all the VC startups these days like Uber/Doordash/Rivian/WeWork/Carvana/etc. Some of those have been bleeding hundreds of millions per quarter for years and keep getting more pumped in over and over.

But even when it's not for insane VC reasons, companies burn money to get market share all the time. It's a textbook strategy. They just don't do it forever. Eventually, the shareholders can get impatient and decide to bail on the idea.

Re: Intel announces Arc B-series "Battlemage" discrete graphics with Linux support

#720

Post by mastax »

mastax wrote: post #453
Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #24

I wonder how many transistors it has and what the chip size it is. For power, it's 190W compared to 4060's 115 W. EDIT: from [1]: B580 has 21.7 billion transistors at 406 mm² die area, compared to 4060's 18.9 billion and 146 mm². That's a big die. [1] https://www.techpowerup.com/gpu-specs/arc-b580.c4244

Those numbers are identical to the A770, and don't match the numbers from the preview[0], so I think that's a copy paste error. If we use the numbers from the preview: | |Arc A770|Arc B580|RTX 4060| |--------|--------|--------|--------| |Process |N6 |N5 |N5 | |Die Size|406mm^2 |272mm^2 |159mm^2 | |Trans. |21.7B |19.6B |18.9B | |Mem Bus |256 bit |192 bit |128 bit | |TDP |225W |190W |115W | |~Perf |90% |110% |100% | In…

In the Hardware Unboxed Podcast, Intel's Tom Peterson gave some explanation (@ 24:00) for the difference in transistor density:

1. There are dummy transistors included in the design for various manufacturing reasons, and there's no standard as to whether those are included in the numbers.

2. SRAM cells in particular are highly optimized and the amount of SRAM (e.g. cache memory) on the chip versus logic will have a big influence on the transistor density.

He said he's still asking around the engineering team for a more complete explanation but that's the supposition.

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