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Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#711

Post by ineedasername »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #564
ineedasername wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying it could have been worse. I'm saying it has been worse and usually is worse. Otherwise: 1) UN Resolution: Done 2) Camp-David (or other such): Hezbollah has repeatedly refused to engage in any negotiations. 3) Something New: Okay, but until a never-before-seen peace genius comes up with that, and given the ineffectiveness of #1 and #2, we're left with the status quo where less bad options are the awful…

> UN Resolution: Done Well, not exactly. The recent actions of Hezbollah are connected to Palestinian cause. If Israeli-Palestinian conflict is resolved, what does it leave to Hezbollah? It may not collapse, but Palestine becomes a major political factor. That’s the reason I mentioned Camp-David and „something new“. If statehood of Palestine is secured and adequate solution for refugees is offered, it will be the key…

>it will be the key to resolution of many conflicts in that region.

If you're broadening the discussion to the wider context, how do you reconcile this opinion with the origins and current stated goals of Hezbollah and other groups involved in these many conflicts?

Hezbollah is fundamentally against the existence of Israel: "It's destination is manifested in our motto, 'Death to Israel'." --Hezbollah secretary general Nasrallah circa 2022

I don't know why you keep mentioning Camp David if you are thinking in terms of Palestinian statehood. Hamas has the destruction of Israel baked into its founding charter. In fact that charter specifically calls out the Camp David agreement from 1978 as treacherous and outright rejects any negotiated peace, especially of the "Camp David" variety: "These conferences are only ways of setting the infidels in the land of the Moslems as arbitraters." (Chapter 13 of the Hamas Covenant)

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#712

Post by varjag »

Daviey wrote: post #422
varjag wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no law or custom of war that prohibits fighting in urban areas.

Except, Rule 15:\ “In the conduct of military operations, constant care must be taken to spare the civilian population, civilians and civilian objects. All feasible precautions must be taken to avoid, and in any event to minimize, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.”* *Provisions common to the territories of the Parties to the conflict and to occupied territories - Ar…

None of that bans urban fighting. While the Conventions strive to minimize civilian deaths they (even the effectively optional 1977 Conventions) do not ban civilian collateral as it would simply be unrealistic and have the rest of Conventions not taken seriously.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#713

Post by ang_cire »

almogo wrote: post #496
ang_cire wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume. They've cracked down hard on anti-war protesters inside Israel. It's absolutely not a safe, nor even likely true, assumption that Mossad does not also surveil Israelis.

No they didn't? There's protests every day, "they" haven't "cracked down" on anything. Occasional arrests here and there on both sides of the protests. It's a democratic country, people have rights to express themselves.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-human-rights/inside...

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#714

Post by minkles »

philistine wrote: post #663
minkles wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's your solution then? Incidentally it does work. It's just horrible. Nagasaki / Hiroshima are a fine example of forced capitulation. Now I'm not suggesting nuking anyone but the best way this ends, with the lowest future body count is someone wins decisively at this point.

You’re rewriting history to suit your point of view. The Japanese state was uninterested in capitulating after the nuclear bombs. It’s the declaration of war by the Soviets and rapid invasion of then-Manchuria which led the Japanese to accept unconditional surrender. They trusted the West to keep the emperor more than the Communists.

You’re making an exclusionary argument to discredit mine and use the rewrite history point. Come on. My point stands as do your secondary points. But that was a principal contributing factor.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#715

Post by anigbrowl »

rasz wrote: post #137
morwanger wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Its almost like the target group is known for using civilians as shields. Dont bring kids to your work seems like a no brainer, especially when you are a terrorist.

Absurd argument. Do you think off-duty military personnel never go to grocery stores or the like in other countries?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#716

Post by ozfive »

showerst wrote: post #169
Zironic wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can't say I'm a big fan of this massive scale booby trapping devices all over civilian society and I suspect most nation stats are not very happy about this either. The EU is probably not going to be happy at all about Israel using an EU flagged company to do it either. This is going to create a lot of distrust in the international supply chain.

> This is going to create a lot of distrust in the international supply chain. Is it? If your threat model includes Mossad (or really any nation state) then you shouldn't have trusted those devices in the first place. Even if you didn't have "tiny explosives" on your bingo card, certainly bugs (hardware or software) should've been on there. Given that those pagers are commonly used by doctors and none of them have be…

There were four ambulance workers and two children in the 12 dead.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#717

Post by echoangle »

anigbrowl wrote: post #680
rtsil wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the same Federal government called the attack against USS Cole "terrorism" and its perpetrators "terrorists", and implemented a range of "anti-terrorism" measures in the Navy after that. And it was a military target, and all the victims were military. So really, terrorism is what people say is terrorism.

It's really quite bizarre how official history sources unironically talk about a 'terrorist boat' inflicting a surprise attack on a 'destroyer'. https://www.fbi.gov/history/famous-cases/uss-cole-bombing

I’m not too familiar with the story but the lead sentence is “On October 12, 2000, two suicide pilots of a small bomb-laden boat pulled alongside of the USS Cole at midship, offered friendly gestures to several crew members, and detonated their explosives.”.

Could this possibly fall under Article 37 c of the Geneva convention (“The feigning of civilian, non-combatant status”)? In that case, calling it terrorism wouldn’t be too bizarre in my opinion. I’m assuming the attackers didn’t wear any uniforms or insignia.

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#718

Post by ang_cire »

zild3d wrote: post #494
ang_cire wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You assume. They've cracked down hard on anti-war protesters inside Israel. It's absolutely not a safe, nor even likely true, assumption that Mossad does not also surveil Israelis.

> They've cracked down hard on anti-war protesters inside Israel huh? There's been weekly protests for almost a year now and last week's was the largest yet with around half a million attending https://www.timesofisrael.com/organizers-claim-largest-ever-...

Protesters, not protests.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-human-rights/inside...

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#719

Post by echoangle »

gosub100 wrote: post #614
rtsil wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet the same Federal government called the attack against USS Cole "terrorism" and its perpetrators "terrorists", and implemented a range of "anti-terrorism" measures in the Navy after that. And it was a military target, and all the victims were military. So really, terrorism is what people say is terrorism.

The soldiers on the Cole were "non-combatant targets" , so the definition is consistent.

Since they were in the US navy, they should count as members of the armed forces of a country, no? Isn’t that enough? How were they non-combatant?

Re: Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

#720

Post by cornercasechase »

bamboozled wrote: post #683
rowanseymour wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume by "many countries" you mean the US and its allies? Is that it then? Your definition of "terrorist" is whoever the West designates a terrorist? Ergo Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

[flagged]

No I do not share values with the US government, which largely represents AIPAC’s interests and not my own.
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