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10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

miamiherald.com

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Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#711

Post by DragonStrength »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #576
TheRoque wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success And I find it so tragic. It means that the best elements of a given country are being sucked out of it. How can this country ever get better if the best elements just leave it ? Immigration exists because some parts of the world just suck, with corrupt governments, wars, you name it. I don't see how anyone can be ha…

Its only tragic if you think of the world as a bunch of sports teams winning points, rather than a planet occupied by the human race. Would you rather the researcher toil fruitlessly in their home country that lacks the funding to properly support a good research environment? Or would you rather they had the opportunity to actually conduct their experiments or build their invention? They will draft a patent or a rese…

Or if you value community and realize all the folks with ambition leaving an area is sad for that community. I don’t have to be cheering for my hometown to win to think it’s sad someone must choose between the community they grew up in and using their talents.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#712

Post by [deleted] »

wwtrv wrote: post #635
noduerme wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> various European nations [...] some immigrant groups American Jew here, who spent years living in France and Spain. I've heard the same polite euphemisms refering to Arabs and Gypsies from the mouths of members of the Front National. You know, before 1945 it was said in Europe that Jews weren't able to integrate fully with the host society. One might ask: Was that the Jews' fault? Or the host society's fault? It's…

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

[deleted]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#713

Post by qwytw »

iudqnolq wrote: post #706
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

When looking at how wealthy democracies integrate immigrants the English speaking countries are dramatically more successful across all the standard objective metrics like crime rates or income compared to the native population. So Sweden isn't relevant.

Is the UK that particularly better than all the countries on the continent? And comparing US/Australia/NZ with Europe in the regard isn't exactly fair (they are much better at controlling and picking who can or can't come).

US specifically already has extremely high crimes rates (compared to most developed countries) which might overshadow any effect immigrants might have.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#714

Post by wanderlust123 »

noduerme wrote: post #649
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

I should be clear... I'm not talking about Nordic countries regarding Jews. Swedes, Norwegians and Danes are considered heroes in this regard, and the historical analogies to the rest of Western Europe don't hold. There was no history of ghettoization or discrimination there. I am not applying my criticism there. It should be said that the pre-WW2 Jewish population of Sweden was miniscule, but that Swedes took great…

Do you have evidence for that claim?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#715

Post by [deleted] »

noduerme wrote: post #649
wwtrv wrote: post #635

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And then, once again, Europe blames the groups it refuses to accept. Can you explain in what way did this manifest in Sweden for instance? Or have any data/evidence besides some semi-vague claims about antisemitism and some immutable characteristics of European societies (which are hardly monolithic to begin with). It's not that I even necessarily disagree with what you're saying but unfortunately your comment is 8…

I should be clear... I'm not talking about Nordic countries regarding Jews. Swedes, Norwegians and Danes are considered heroes in this regard, and the historical analogies to the rest of Western Europe don't hold. There was no history of ghettoization or discrimination there. I am not applying my criticism there. It should be said that the pre-WW2 Jewish population of Sweden was miniscule, but that Swedes took great…

[deleted]

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#716

Post by blackhawkC17 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #614
lo0dot0 wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the economy can not be influenced by political decisions? Also do you live behind the moon?

The little man is told he has all the control but really he is along for the ride. The big man plots the course and convinces the little man their interests are shared when they may not be.

This is cynical thinking that causes corruption and incompetence to thrive. People have a say in their government but often refuse to use it for good. That's how bad leaders get into power.

Many countries continually elect smart and competent leaders and become prosperous, but some people have somehow convinced themselves that they have no say in politics, meaning they don't care when their system rots with horrible leadership.

This cynical thinking is what has ruined many third-world countries, and I hate to see it propagated.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#717

Post by selfmodruntime »

konschubert wrote: post #311
selfmodruntime wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems to me there is significant brain drain from many countries to the U.S. and that contributes to our success This enables wage suppression

High skilled immigrants also create demand, which creates labour demand. So it’s not clear that they suppress wages.

How exactly is it that highly skilled tech immigrants create demand?

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#719

Post by krapp »

anon291 wrote: post #554
krapp wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What if some highly intelligent immigrants oppose American values? Sounds like a recipe for disaster. They may use their capital and ability to politically undermine our civil liberties. That should be perfectly acceptable and within the bounds of free speech in a democratic society. It's up to you to counter "bad speech" with other speech in the marketplace of ideas. At least that's what I'm told when I complain ab…

It should be within the bounds of speech for people part of our society already Not for people were considering allowing to join our society

Immigrants don't need "our" permission to join "our" society, they only need the permission of the government, as a matter of legal formality. And of course one could argue that "illegal immigrants" are a part of society, just not legally, because societies aren't only defined in the context of states.

Also free speech is a universal value, is it not? It should apply equally to everyone, everywhere, all the time, and in all contexts.

Re: 10% of Cubans left Cuba between 2022 and 2023

#720

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

hansworst wrote: post #621
noduerme wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your negative version of the point: >> if you don't accept a countries values, you should not be allowed to move there But in the positive version, I think in America it is much easier to integrate if you do accept American values than it is in some European countries. And this is because, as you alluded, the only thing that makes America a unified country is a social agreement to certain shared values l…

I think it’s true that people in Europe feel that welfare is part of the problem here. In the Netherlands for example, one of the main right wing talking point is that refugees are given free social housing which could have gone to locals that are often on waiting lists for years. In America on the other hand, land was forcibly taken from the natives by colonists centuries ago. Now, if you’re looking to move to the U…

Uh. I want to hope that this is just a oversimplification intended to get a reaction.

Yes, US does have real issues that it needs to address those in order to make social mobility reasonably attainable. Arguably, it is a lot harder to "make it" now.

I am just an anecdote here, but, I am a first generation immigrant. I have a house, a dog and a partner. Also next week, I am taking my vacation and buying a vette ( well, I scheduled a test drive -- didn't mentally commit to buying yet ). I do not consider myself a second class citizen. I am not rich, but I can't say I am poor either. My kid is starting school ( private, public one is not great here -- ok, but not great ).

I honestly do not think I would have been able to do the same in the old country.

I absolutely accept that I might not be the norm and the current version of capitalism needs to be reined in, but, honestly, if you do want to drive that point, I think you need a better argument.

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