Live data from Hacker News

OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

vox.com

711–720 of 1001 posts

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you watch some long form interviews with Elon, you’ll see that he cares a lot about the truth. You mean the guy who's infamous for lying? The guy who claimed his car was fully self driving more than a decade before it is? The guy who tweeted "funding secured" and facing multiple fraud charges?

Tbh, he wasn’t convicted as far as I know. But yes, he’s overly optimistic with timelines. He says so himself.

The first time someone is "overly optimistic with a timeline", you should forgive them.

The tenth time, you should have the good sense to realize that they're full of shit and either a habitual liar or utterly incompetent.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#712

I am confused about the source of the outrage. A situation where nobody is very clear about what the claim is but everyone is very upset, makes me suspicious. Are employees being mislead about the contract terms at time of signing the contract? Because, obviously, the original contract needs to have some clause regarding the equity situation, right? We can not just make that up at the end. So... are we claiming fraud…

If the two parties are equal, sure. If it's a person vs a corporation of significant size, then no, it's not safe to assume that people have free choice. That's also ignoring motivations apart from business ones, like them actually wanting to be at the leading edge of AI research or wanting to work with particular other individuals. It's a common mistake on here to assume that for every decision there are equally goo…

> If it's a person vs a corporation of significant size, then no, it's not safe to assume that people have free choice

We understand this as a market dynamic, surely? More companies are looking for capable AI people, than capable AI people exist (as in: on the entire planet). I don't see any magic trick a "corporation of significant size" can pull, to make the "free choice" aspect go away. But, of course, individual people can continue to CHOOSE certain corps, because they actually kind of like the outsized benefits that brings. Complaining about certain trade-offs afterwards is fairly disingenuous.

> That's also ignoring motivations apart from business ones, like them actually wanting to be at the leading edge of AI research or wanting to work with particular other individuals.

I don't understand what you are saying. Is the wish to work on leading AI research sensible, but offering the opportunity to work on leading AI research not a value proposition? How does that make sense?

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#713

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Options can vest as do stock grants as well.

Unless I'm mistaken, the difference is that grants vest into actual shares while options only vest into the opportunity to buy the shares at a set price. Part of my hiring bonus when joining one of the big tech companies were stock grants. As they vested I owned shares directly and could sell them as soon as they vested if I wanted to. I also joined a couple startups later in my career and was given options as a hiri…

    > Well, they'd actually be shares owned by a clearing house and promised to me but that's a very different rabbit hole.
You still own the shares, not the clearing house. They hold them on your behalf.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading that thread it’s really interesting to me. I see how far we’ve come in a short couple of years. But I still can’t grasp how we’ll achieve AGI within any reasonable amount of time. It just seems like we’re missing some really critical… something… Idk. Folks much smarter than I seem worried so maybe I should be too but it just seems like such a long shot.

Everyone involved in building these things has to have some amount of hubris. Its going to come smashing down on them. What's going unsaid in all of this is just how swiftly the tide has turned against this tech industry attempt to save itself from a downtrend. The whole industry at this point is acting like the tobacco industry back when they first started getting in hot water. No doubt the prophecies about imminent…

It becoming more and more clear that for "Open"AI the whole "AI-safety/alignment" thing has been a PR-stunt to attract workers, cover the actual current issues with AI (eg stealing data, use for producing cheap junk, hallucinations and societal impact), and build rapport in the AI scene and politics. Now that they have reached a real product and have a strong position in AI development, they could not care less about these things. Those who -naively- believed in the "existential risk" PR stunt and were working on that are now discarded.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#715

"It forbids them, for the rest of their lives, from criticizing their former employer. Even acknowledging that the NDA exists is a violation of it." I find it hard to understand that in a country that tends to take freedom of expression so seriously (and I say this unironically, American democracy may have flaws but that is definitely a strength) it can be legal to silence someone for the rest of their life.

In America you're free to sign or not sign terrible contracts in exchange for life altering amounts of money.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#716
post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can sue you into bankruptcy, obviously. Also, what if you can't sell? Selling is at their discretion. They can prevent you from selling some of your so-called "equity" to keep you on their leash as long as they want.

If you can't sell, it's worthless anyway.

Liquidity and value are different things. If someone offered you 1% of OpenAI, would you take it? Duh.

But it's a private venture and not a public company, and you "can't sell" that holding on a market, only via complicated schemes that have to be authorized by the board. But you'd take it anyway in the expectation that it would be liquid someday. The employees are in the same position.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#717

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can't even mention the NDA exists!

This is common, and there is nothing wrong with it.

There is absolutely something wrong with it. Just because a thing is common doesn't make it good.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#718

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not responsible for the sins of your father regardless of how seriously fucked in the head he is.

No but there is the old nature versus nurture debate. If you're raised in a home with a parent who has zero qualms about exploiting human suffering for profit, that's probably going to have an impact, right?

What are you implying here? The answer to the nature vs. nurture debate is "both", see "epigenetics" for more.

When considering the influence of a parent with morally reprehensible behavior, it's important to recognize that the environment a child grows up in can indeed have a profound impact on their development. Children raised in households where unethical behaviors are normalized may adopt some of these behaviors themselves, either through direct imitation or as a response to the emotional and psychological environment. However, it is equally possible for individuals to reject these influences.

Furthermore, while acknowledging the potential impact of a negative upbringing, it is critical to avoid deterministic assumptions about individuals. People are not simply products of their environment; they possess agency and the capacity for change, and we need to realize that not all individuals perceive and respond to environmental stimuli in the same way. Personal experiences, cognitive processes, and emotional responses can lead to different interpretations and reactions to similar environmental conditions. Therefore, while the influence of a parent's actions cannot be dismissed, it is neither fair nor accurate to presume that an individual will inevitably follow in their footsteps.

As for epigenetics: it highlights how environmental factors can influence gene expression, adding a layer of complexity to how we understand the interaction between genes and environment. While the environment can modify gene expression, individuals may exhibit different levels of susceptibility or resistance to these changes based on genetic variability.

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#719
post #225

Compared to what seemed like their original charter, with non-profit structure and all, now it seems like a rather poisonous place. They will have many successes in the short run, but, their long run future suddenly looks a little murky.

It could work like academia or finance: poisonous environment (it is said), but ambitious enough people still go in to try their luck.

"finance": A bit of a broad brush, don't you think? Is working at a Landsbank or Sparkasse in Germany really so "poisonous"?

Re: OpenAI departures: Why can’t former employees talk?

#720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's meaningfully affecting people today near the equator. Look at the April 2024 heatwave in South Asia. These will continue to get worse and more frequent. Millions of these people can't afford air conditioning.

> It's meaningfully affecting people today near the equator. Look at the April 2024 heatwave in South Asia. Weather is not climate, as everyone is so careful to point out during cold waves.

Weather is variance around climate. Heatwaves are caused by both (high variance spikes to the upside around an increasing mean trend)
Post reply on HN