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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#711

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also pays significantly more. Unions change the risk calculation for employers, and the result will be changes in compensation, and often increased costs to consumers. Also unions in the US have quite often rewarded seniority over skill and effort, making them less attractive to high performers. Early on in tech I outperformed all those I started with, and was able to make significantly more as a result. My fr…

You do make some very good points, but I disagree on one. >Now look at how few companies in the EU become worth 1B compared to the US. That low ratio also applies to smaller (and larger) companies. Money is power/control, and not having a concentration of wealth is a good thing for society. Granted many of the ultra wealthy also support giving away their wealth - but (IMHO) the Benevolent dictator model for social ch…

> not having a concentration of wealth is a good thing for society

The US has higher income for median, for the poor. for those in poverty, for every decile, by a decent margin.

For example, US median income is around 46k. Germany is a reasonable first world country, yet median income is 33k (all in PPP dollars). This is huge. Most of the first world has similarly low income, at every level.

If your argument against income is that some people make a lot, so instead make everyone poorer, I find that a weak argument. It is a common outcome of poorly designed policies that those focusing on the rich or poor but with a bad understanding of history and econ end up making. I'd rather policymakers learn econ and history and learn that things like rent control, or various forms of taxes, have consequences that often hurt those they claim to want to help.

Here's some metrics for various ways to measure https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disposable_household_and_per_c...

OECD has tons more.

> I think there is wastage of allocated capital both when its done by elected officials and also with the ultra wealthy.

You think the average person would allocate capital better than those that understand investment and growth, and are willing to risk their own resources? There's a reason govt funds vastly underperform general markets - those with less to lose (i.e., those playing with other's money) likely fare worse at allocation than those that have more skin in the game. I know that most workers I tend to hang out with have a terrible understanding of how econ/macro/finance or even starting and funding businesses works.

Also those countries that tend strongly into socialism instead of capitalism have not done as well as those with strong capitalist bases (i.e., all first world countries - where people can own the means of production and operate for their own profit). If capital were allocated so much better in the places you seem to want, where is the evidence that it works? There's 200+ countries; if it worked, you'd think it would be winning somewhere....

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, many of their software products are bloated and slow as fuck. (There are some that are top class too, but just sayin.. )

>many of their software products are bloated and slow as fuck Which? I regularly use Gmail, Maps, Drive, Docs, Sheets, Home, Voice, and Takeout. I don’t think any of those are bloated or slow, but maybe I’m missing something. I’m also curious which you think are top class.

The ones I think are top class are not really end-user oriented, it's core stuff like the search engine, their JS engine, etc. (IMO) The bloated ones are their webapps that suck up gigabytes and gigabytes of ram and CPU resources (client side) for basic stuff like showing you one couple of pages of emails or playing a video file.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#713
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. What would you do instead? Threads about tech interviews are always the same: we all complain about the process with no real alternative when you want to hire at that scale. In particular about: > Just about every other skill that is needed to be a good software engin…

I've been interviewing people for Software Eng jobs for more than 10 years an I haven't used leetcode style problems for like 8 of those years. Leetcode interviewing is lazy interviewing. It's for when you don't want to put an effort in your interviewing process to check if the candidates have the skills you need for the position you are filling. For example. My interview process nowadays is one web API interaction c…

So, with your interview process, assuming two people could complete the (very simple) task of doing a simple backend web service, how do you determine who is worth 100k and who is worth 300k?

How can you tell who is going to come up with the innovative solution to a challenging problem and who is just merely competent?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#714

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're arguing against a strawman. Nobody says layoffs are stupid because they're not a very "nice" thing to do. They say so because the statement "it's a company trying to maximize value" is contentious. The long term objective of a company is not to save as much money as possible. It's to spend money toward endeavors that generate more money. If the layoff is because of an efficiency improvement, that's jus…

Most of the tech companies generate their revenue from their core businesses. For Google it's ~80% from ads, and probably even more of their profit comes from Ads. The history of companies being able to generate abnormal profits in other business lines is not favorable overall. I think experimenting and trying to find new sources of revenue makes sense, but the flip side of that is you have to kill those projects if…

It's naïve to think that frequent layoffs at the periphery of their business (itself not true - there were layoffs in Ads, Search and other similar "core businesses") won't affect their core business. Google loses a bit of its brand value every time it does a big public layoff. At some point, the Google brand will be most associated with the word layoff and nothing else. It affects morale for existing employees and makes the whole company culture just a little more selfish and paranoid.

Associating your company with unhappiness and strife does not come without a cost.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#715
post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#716
post #682
post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

As I’ve grown more senior in age and rank I’ve come to realise just how important it is to carry on the selection process after the interview, during probation, and managing performance throughout your hire’s entire journey. It just feels so incredibly imprecise relying on a few hours of meetings to gauge if someone is good or not, and the probationary period is crucial for correcting mistakes. Frankly, we also can’t…

I’ve don’t think I’ve ever seen engineers complain about the rejection rate of Google’s interview process. The more common criticism/meme regards the laziness of running candidates through a unidimensional leetcode gauntlet. Half joking, but why even have engineers run these interviews at all? A proctor could get the same job done at a fraction of the cost. If a proctor can run the interview process, then how valuable is the signal?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#717

SWE no longer a safe space. Now what? I would ask about second careers to get away from SWE. But to do what? What job is safe now? Safe and pays. Doctor? That would be a tough second act.

>SWE no longer a safe space. Now what?

It hasn't been for 20+ years, except there was maybe a 4 year period from 2018 to 2022 where it was safe.

It was boom and bust in the dotcom era, there were tons of layoffs during the financial crisis, microsoft was always known to stack rank, IBM and Oracle do layoffs as an annual company tradition, etc.

I worked for a mega-corp in 2015 and there were constantly layoffs and reorgs and hiring sprees and divisions culled. This is all how it goes.

This was never a safe field. It was an exciting and interesting one.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#718
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

I disagree and I am sad that we're teaching each other to be skeptical and cynical. The company is not your friend and not your enemy, I agree. However, people _do_ develop personal relationship with each other. Sometimes even across the different levels in the company hierarchy. Yes, as with any other relationship, circumstances and interests might override this, but relationships still do matter. People have emotio…

> But please don't think that nobody cares about you in your workplace and you're a completely fungible cog. It's a horrible life to live. Let's not tell the already cynical young people that this is how the world works.

I found this to be a very obvious reality in the companies in which I worked. And not in the sense of "poor me, nobody loves me": on the contrary, I found that I was more indifferent than expected even toward the departure of colleagues with whom I had a good relationship.

For example, in the current group of about 40 people in which I work, two directors who had moved up the ladder, were quite well-liked, and had a long tenure with the company, left to work for other companies. Their colleagues, including me, forgot about them within 2 weeks at most.

Another colleague was forced to retire after 40 years with the company: a month before his (forced and unexpected) retirement, he sat down with me to explain what he intended to do in the company over the next 3 years. But he was forced to retire and disappeared from people's minds within a few days.

Despite an excellent memory, I forget the names of most of my colleagues after a month's break. If I leave the company, they are never mentioned again. Apart from the usual exceptions, "standard" working relationships, especially in large companies, are tenuous, easily broken, and easily forgotten.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#719
post #183

It’s just business. And it’s not like swe aren’t making 400k or more at least in bay area. People need to understand that just because you have a little bit of RSUs and a 200k base doesn’t mean you’re God. You’re an asset like a machine. And you’re expensive to the bottom line. This is literally explicitly laid out now with section 174. If you’re taking this personally ask yourself why you’re even working for arguabl…

I have worked in the Bay Area for decades, and never seen 400k+. My current contract comes out at about 165k with no benefits.

The reason I work for a soul-less telco, is that it is hard (for me at least) to find a job in the first place. I've been at plenty of small companies as well. If I could have gotten in at Google I would have done it in a heart beat, not just for the money, but to have FAANG on my resume.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#720
post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. It means that you need to be responsible for yourself, and not allow thoughts like "I'm a valuable employee", or "I have too much seniority", or "my manager and I get along great" to convince you management won't lay you off or fire you or that they owe you anything. As oth…

>"Your job is not safe" does not mean you should do everything possible to keep your job -- allowing yourself to be unfairly exploited and abused. In my opinion it should mean that you not only consider the relationship transactional, you consider yourself as an independent business operating within a business transaction, an LLC or sole proprietorship if you will. Remove yourself from emotional attachment this way.…

I wouldn't say that people higher up can't be your friends, but when their office and them personally aren't the same thing.

I've seen family members fire other close family members, because a business is a business. Nothing special about it.

You can be friends with your colleagues, but when you understand that their role at a company is separate from your personal relationship - you may just get friends that transcend your employment.

My personal attitude towards employment - "I work for you while our goals align". Businesses most definitely treat any employee the same way.

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